Nostalgia & History > If your a Santa Fe PA fan you gotta have this!!

Or a PA fan in general Ive always wanted one of these though a little out of my price range Ebay item #330115654643

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330115654643&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D330115654643%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1

Interesting, name sounds somewhat familiar ....


TCS - ev

TopcoatSmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting, name sounds somewhat familiar ....
>
>
> TCS - ev


That would be Alan Miller, I believe.

How does he know it is from a PA/PB if he doesn't know the number? These were on the FB units also. Still a neat item, I have a friend that bought one at the Santa Fe auction held in Topeka back in the 80's. BNSF also has one mounted on a piece of wood just outside the NOC.

Anybody out there know if the Indian Head logos on the PA/PBs were the identical size as those on the passenger B units? That might be one way to tell if this one is from an Alco.

Hmmm, I'll have to tell a friend who has one of the Alco PA builder's plate still covered in red paint.

I understand there was a size difference between the PA and E unit emblems not sure of the specifics

Pullman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmmm, I'll have to tell a friend who has one of
> the Alco PA builder's plate still covered in red
> paint.

One of those went a while back on Ebay for around $3000

OliveHeights wrote:

> BNSF also has one mounted on a piece of wood just outside the NOC.


What's the NOC?

Network Operations Center, in Ft. Worth. It is BNSF's dispatching center on the headquarters campus.

-Justin

A truly evocative piece of art from a classic era.

roberthedgecock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand there was a size difference between
> the PA and E unit emblems not sure of the
> specifics

Without doing a lot of digging into actual numbers of units, the Santa Fe had many more passenger F units than E units. The actual number of these Indian Head logos on Santa Fe diesel locomotives were predominately on the passenger B units. The A (F3 or F7 units) never had them. That is the reason for my original question about size. The PAs were adorned with them and had more length that the EMD passenger F units. In fact, if I recall, none of the EMD F3A or F7A units were equipped with steam generators. I only mention this because of the possible length issue. Only the B units had them. So, does anybody have the true answer instead of a bunch of guessing? Where are the real Santa Fe historians when you need them?

Coolidge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
So, does anybody have the
> true answer instead of a bunch of guessing? Where
> are the real Santa Fe historians when you need
> them?

Allan Miller has been collecting since God was a pup. Unlike most of us, he had the resources to acquire items at a time when the majority of us were, if you will, were "unclear on the concept". I feel confident that if he says this piece came from a PA it most likely did. Also, note that the auction description states PA/PB. Now, if I were shot in the as. . . (read posterior) with diamonds, I would be bidding on this piece. As luck would have it, I'm not. Damn!

Cheers,
Jack

IIRC, the Santa Fe Indian Head Heralds were not "mounted" on F3/F7 B-Units as a plate, they were stenciled onto the stainless directly.

Doyle McCormack's had a change of heart and is bidding this on up, right???

>The
> PAs were adorned with them and had more length
> that the EMD passenger F units.

My 1953 Santa Fe Plan Book shows the Indian head for F7 boosters as about 6'-0", while the one on the PA/B is about 7'-0". Not sure how accurate this is.

> As I recall, none of the EMD F3A or F7A units were
> equipped with steam generators.

That is correct. And the A units also did not have Indian heads.

>I only mention this because of the possible length issue. Only
> the B units had them. So, does anybody have the
> true answer instead of a bunch of guessing? Where
> are the real Santa Fe historians when you need
> them?

The Santa Fe had approximately 154 F7 boosters vs. 27 PAs and 15 PBs, all of which carried the Indian head shield. The 1 and 1A, the early E-units (2 & 11 classes) and the FMs (90) also had them. The E8ms rebuilt from the 1 and 2 classes did not. (ref. Worley, "Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail," 1965.)

D F W

This plate originally came from a collector who bought quite a few at Pielet Bros when they were scrapping the PA/PBs that came into to EMD in trade for SD39s and other units. The F3/F7 B units had smaller versions stencilled onto the units and most, if not all of these, ended up at Cleburne for the CF7 program. So....being 7 feet long and coming from Pielet, it is most likely from an Alco.

masterphots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
The F3/F7 B units had smaller versions stencilled onto the
> units and most, if not all of these, ended up at
> Cleburne for the CF7 program. So....being 7 feet
> long and coming from Pielet, it is most likely
> from an Alco.

Perhaps the one in question is from an Alco. However, as Wildebeest said above,

<The Santa Fe had approximately 154 F7 boosters vs. 27 PAs and 15 PBs, all of which carried the Indian head shield. The 1 and 1A, the early E-units (2 & 11 classes) and the FMs (90) also had them. The E8ms rebuilt from the 1 and 2 classes did not. (ref. Worley, "Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail," 1965.)>

the fact remains that the F3 and F7 B-units indeed had metal heralds, NOT stencils. The outstanding question still remains, are the dimensions equal to or smaller than those on Alcos?

Coolidge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> masterphots Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> The F3/F7 B units had smaller versions
> stencilled onto the
> > units and most, if not all of these, ended up
> at
> > Cleburne for the CF7 program. So....being 7
> feet
> > long and coming from Pielet, it is most likely
> > from an Alco.
>
> Perhaps the one in question is from an Alco.
> However, as Wildebeest said above,
>
>
>
> the fact remains that the F3 and F7 B-units indeed
> had metal heralds, NOT stencils. The outstanding
> question still remains, are the dimensions equal
> to or smaller than those on Alcos?

There is too much photographic evidence to support the discussion regarding the use of pressure-sensitive "decals" or "stencils" on the F3B/F7B units in question and so far none supporting "metal" heralds. Where is this factual information coming from to support the use of metal heralds?