Nostalgia & History > Alco C-636

MKco-5401 Flagstaff AZ 4-72 While passing through town I caught this ALCO C-636
beening worked on.She was being set up to be shipped by truck to Page AZ to start building the BM&LP railroad,I like this color scheme alot she looks sharp.

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That's the ticket, laddie!!!

A well traveled unit if there ever was one..Built as one of three C636 demonstrators (a strange deal to begin with as they were outshopped a month before Alco stopped producing locomotives). The three demos toured several railroads making it as far west as the WP. They were sold to MK who leased them to PGE in BC for a while. After that, they headed south to AZ to be used in the service the photographer has noted.

After that job, the three REALLY headed south - to Australia for use in building the lines into the Pilbura region in NW Aus (I think they were on the MT Newman Mining line and the Robe River, but I could be wrong). Continuing with their frequent sailor miles program, the trio were then sold to Le Chemin de fer de la Cartier (Cartier Railway) in Northeast Quebec. I've seen photos of them in the MK colors, QCM green/yellow and the Orange/black schemes while in service there. I shot them on the line in 1986 myself.

Still not done with their wanderings, two of the original trio (including the ex MK 5401) were sold in 2002 and sent south to NY for storage and possible future use (the third broke a crank and was scrapped in 02). Along came the NYS&W and at least for a bit the two C636's were working on Suzie-Q. I believe both are laid up for repairs right now, but some reports indicate that they will be repaired and returned to service. It may be that the former MK 5401's wanderings are not yet over.

If on the other hand, the unit's days of working are indeed over, let's hope that she is preserved and perhaps even returned to her long-gone builder's demo colors.

Thanks for the photo.

Brian E

I shot two of them at Hillyard, Wa sometime after Morrison Knudsen got them.

Good history Brian as for the NYSW 77 I'm not sure which demonstrator this was is in Utica sadly being used as a parts supply as it sustained freeze damage in a recent winter. The squeak was able to finally rebuilt one or two the these aging units recently jury is still out as to weather it is a success or not will determine if the others will follow suit. But other things in the works may kaput the whole deal as Walter Rich is terminally ill with cancer and the rumor mill is very active as to whats gonna happen once he unfortunately passes.

m420 Wrote:
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> That's the ticket, laddie!!!
>
> A well traveled unit if there ever was one..Built
> as one of three C636 demonstrators (a strange deal
> to begin with as they were outshopped a month
> before Alco stopped producing locomotives). The
> three demos toured several railroads making it as
> far west as the WP. They were sold to MK who
> leased them to PGE in BC for a while. After that,
> they headed south to AZ to be used in the service
> the photographer has noted.
>
> After that job, the three REALLY headed south - to
> Australia for use in building the lines into the
> Pilbura region in NW Aus (I think they were on the
> MT Newman Mining line and the Robe River, but I
> could be wrong). Continuing with their frequent
> sailor miles program, the trio were then sold to
> Le Chemin de fer de la Cartier (Cartier Railway)
> in Northeast Quebec. I've seen photos of them in
> the MK colors, QCM green/yellow and the
> Orange/black schemes while in service there. I
> shot them on the line in 1986 myself.
>
> Still not done with their wanderings, two of the
> original trio (including the ex MK 5401) were sold
> in 2002 and sent south to NY for storage and
> possible future use (the third broke a crank and
> was scrapped in 02). Along came the NYS&W and at
> least for a bit the two C636's were working on
> Suzie-Q. I believe both are laid up for repairs
> right now, but some reports indicate that they
> will be repaired and returned to service. It may
> be that the former MK 5401's wanderings are not
> yet over.
>
> If on the other hand, the unit's days of working
> are indeed over, let's hope that she is preserved
> and perhaps even returned to her long-gone
> builder's demo colors.
>
> Thanks for the photo.
>
> Brian E



They never went to Australia. They went from Page to the Cartier and worked on the 90 mile line extension that MK was building at the time. When finished, MK sold the units to QCM.

The units were very well traveled. They demonstrated on the D&H, PC, ATSF, S,P&S and WP at a minimum. MK bought them to build the line relocation around Libby Dam. Some of the guys I worked with at MK told me about having them up to (and over) 70 mph on the line relocation. After Libby, MK leased them to the PGE/BCR and of all carriers, the Clinchfield. After that, the assignment in Page and then onto the QCM, were they found a home once MK completed the construction project.

I posted some of these on TO before, but for fans that missed that, here are a couple of views
from 1973 when three of us made arrangements to visit the construction of BM&LP and ride the line.
I suppose this is some of the rarest mileage I have. MK was great to us.

Keith A

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Kieth,are the cabs on the C636's as small as Ive heard from the WP crews? They bellyached about
the BN'S C636s to no end.It became rare to catch one one the point becouse of the crews complaints.

I don't recall the cab being too small, but I haven't been in any modern widenose units. There were
us three fans, Don Strack on the left, and my brother Ken on right. There were two MK guys, so five
of us. What a great trip.

Keith A

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Anyone else notice the name is misspelled? Sortof a big "oops" !

Err.. or is there just a hood door open a touch?

The MKC paint job sure resembles NP yellow doesn't it? The front of the NP's U25/28/33Cs and SD45s, then with the red stripe along the frame. I bet someone at copied the NP, and extended the yellow along the carbody. Sure loved these big ALCOs. I've seen all three survivors.

Horn placement, if I’m seeing it right, wouldn't thrill me as an engineer; a good set of earplugs would be in order at all times, unless I wanted to lose my hearing.

NYSWSD70M Wrote:
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> They never went to Australia. They went from Page
> to the Cartier and worked on the 90 mile line
> extension that MK was building at the time. When
> finished, MK sold the units to QCM.


Interesting, as I've read several sources of material that says the trio of MK's did go to Australia. The most recent was Richard Steinbrenner's Alco Centennial Remembrance book. I could be wrong I suppose, But that book for one, says they went down there for construction of the Robe River Line.

Brian E

>
> They never went to Australia. They went from Page
> to the Cartier and worked on the 90 mile line
> extension that MK was building at the time. When
> finished, MK sold the units to QCM.
>

I am glad you corrected that. To my knowledge there were no C636 demonstrators that ended up working on the Pilbara - perhaps he is getting confused with the C415 demonstrator which ended up down here and remains here. Anything which ends "up" downunder, stays here. There were some WP F units, ORO dam construction Ore cars, an S-1. The ex-HI SD50ies that went to the USA were Australian built I believe.

MK was one of the engineering contractors who helped build one of the original Iron Ore roads so that could be part of the confusion too.

Anyway, sticking to the topic - there were no C636 demonstrators here; just the C415 demonstrator.

Rick in Oz

> MK was one of the engineering contractors who
> helped build one of the original Iron Ore roads so
> that could be part of the confusion too.
>
> Anyway, sticking to the topic - there were no C636
> demonstrators here; just the C415 demonstrator.
>
> Rick in Oz


I am not sure now if I am correct in making this statement, now. Will double check my copy of "Railways in the Pilbara". I just do not recall reading it in there and this would be the definitive book to say as it was written within a ten years of the area opening up.

Are there any other "real" Aussies (rather than a Naturalised one) who would know?

Rick in Oz

> I am not sure now if I am correct in making this
> statement, now. Will double check my copy of
> "Railways in the Pilbara". I just do not recall
> reading it in there and this would be the
> definitive book to say as it was written within a
> ten years of the area opening up.
>


I have confirmed my original statement - that is none of the C636 demos came down here. Refer to the text above as written by NYSWSD70M. There was four ex C&O C636's (#2100 to 2103) on Cliffs Robe River and an ex-BN chassis was brought down and turned into a GE. Hamersley Iron had five C628's built by Alco and sold direct. As mentioned above, the C415 was the ex-demo and it went to HI. HI also had an Alco S-2 which was ex-SP&S trade in for one of the C425's.

All info is from "Railways in the Pilbara" by Tilley and Joyce. The book is out of print but can be found in used book piles in the USA. I found two copies sitting lost and forlorn in the bookshop at the Portola Railroad Museum - there must be others. I recommend it if anyone really likes C636's or M636's.

Rick in Oz

rschonfelder Wrote:
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> I have confirmed my original statement - that is none of the C636 demos came down here. > Rick in Oz



Thanks Rick.

As I said, I've read that the C636 demos made the trip down there and sited one of the references above. Doesn't mean that books cannot be wrong of course. Thanks for the information.

I certainly knew about the other alcos that made their way down there, the C415 demo, the C628's, the C&O C630's and at least one ex BN/SP&S C636 for parts as well. (not to mention ex WP F-units).

Regardless, those ex MK 636's are significant and I hope someone finds a way to preserve at least one of them.

Brian E

m420 Wrote:
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> rschonfelder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have confirmed my original statement - that
> is none of the C636 demos came down here. > Rick
> in Oz
>
>
>
> Thanks Rick.
>
> As I said, I've read that the C636 demos made the
> trip down there and sited one of the references
> above. Doesn't mean that books cannot be wrong of
> course. Thanks for the information.
>
> I certainly knew about the other alcos that made
> their way down there, the C415 demo, the C628's,
> the C&O C630's and at least one ex BN/SP&S C636
> for parts as well. (not to mention ex WP
> F-units).
>
> Regardless, those ex MK 636's are significant and
> I hope someone finds a way to preserve at least
> one of them.
>
> Brian E


Brian,

This was not meant to challenge any one person directly. I have read in other publications about their time in Australia. This just plain did not happen.

rschonfelder Wrote:

"There was four ex C&O C636's (#2100 to 2103) on Cliffs Robe River"

Just to clarify, these were C630's riding on Alco Hi-Ad trucks.

Daniel

NYSWSD70M Wrote:
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> This was not meant to challenge any one person > directly. I have read in other publications about their time in Australia. This just plain did not happen.


Didn't take it that way at all...Just saying where I got my info.Lord knows that all the information out there isn't correct, thank you for the information. By the way, would LOVE to find a copy of that Pilbara book. Sounds great!

By the way, speaking of the big Alcos, here's my favorite all time loco...MLW's M630. Shot taken on BCR in 1985

Brian E

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