Nostalgia & History > "Must like Trains..."

I was fresh off active duty in the Navy in February 1968 and had landed a newspaper job in Reno, Nev. I started looking for a place to live when I read a classified ad titled "Must Like Trains".
It was for a small cottage in Verdi, Nev. about 11 miles west of Reno. The cottage was right next to the Southern Pacific main line. Its front door was only a few feet from the tracks.

I thought about it, but decided it was too far from the newspaper and did I really like trains THAT much? So I rented an apartment in Sparks that turned out to be right under the flight path into the Reno airport. But Verdi became one of my favorite photo haunts.

Here is a westbound freight meeting Amtrak's eastbound San Francisco Zephyr on the split mains just east of town on Dec. 4, 1971. Remember those big auto parts boxcars that were stenciled with "When empty return to agent, Flint, Mich."? And no graffiti either.

JEB



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/12 06:08 by Copy19.

---

Great job...love that place. Im a litte sad that aside from overseas, I couldnt be much further. Im in VA now, near Norfolk. I am hoping that I will be close to Donner when I leave VA in 2015. I am pretty jealous! Especially since a lot of the wood sheds and Norden was still there!

Ray Lewis

Hey Ray:
Good to hear from you. You used to sent me some great pix from Donner and Arizona for the UP calendar. JEB

GM autoparts.. FMSUP/ARRO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/12 14:50 by WAF.

I don't think those N&W boxes were stenciled "Return to Flint". They might have said return to whatever was the DT&I station name serving the River Rouge plant in Detroit.

This is the Ford FAST train (AKA FMS FAST before 1972 and AKA UPMIA or RGMIA on the SP after 1972) running a little late for a midnight arrival at Milpitas, but maybe they can still spot the cars before the day shift at the plant starts.

The GM ARRO auto parts train (AKA FMS ARRO before 1972, and AKA UPWSA after 1972) would have your "Return to Flint" cars entrained.

Best regards,

Rob L.

Great shot, JEB! And.... little has changed at this spot since it was taken so many years ago; however, we are east, not west, of Verdi at this location.

BTW... Verdi is the home of our regular resident waver, "Verdi Mary" who, along with her daugher (and occasionally her granddaugher) come out and wave as #6/5 goes by!

rob_l Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think those N&W boxes were stenciled
> "Return to Flint". They might have said return to
> whatever was the DT&I station name serving the
> River Rouge plant in Detroit.
>
> This is the Ford FAST train (AKA FMS FAST before
> 1972 and AKA UPMIA or RGMIA on the SP after 1972)
> running a little late for a midnight arrival at
> Milpitas, but maybe they can still spot the cars
> before the day shift at the plant starts.
>
> The GM ARRO auto parts train (AKA FMS ARRO before
> 1972, and AKA UPWSA after 1972) would have your
> "Return to Flint" cars entrained.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob L.
Got my 86 foot high cube doors twisted. 2/1974 on that SP symbol change

This would be the right time for the FMSUP/ARRO, though



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/12 15:15 by WAF.

WAF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Got my 86 foot high cube doors twisted. 2/1974 on
> that SP symbol change

WAF, so the TOPS symbols were not in effect until Feb 74?

>
> This would be the right time for the FMSUP/ARRO,
> though

Yes, a lot closer to the right time of day for the ARRO (although I think a little late for that one, too). But this train is clearly the FAST.

WAF, do you have any info on what were the first years of operation for the FMS FAST and the FMS ARRO. I am guessing 1970 or 1971 for the ARRO, probably a couple years earlier for the FAST, but I don't have any concrete data.

Thanks in advance,

Rob L.

What route would the Ford cars take closer to Detroit on the N&W? Detroit-Kansas City?

rob_l Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WAF Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Got my 86 foot high cube doors twisted. 2/1974
> on
> > that SP symbol change
>
> WAF, so the TOPS symbols were not in effect until
> Feb 74?
>
> >
> > This would be the right time for the
> FMSUP/ARRO,
> > though
>
> Yes, a lot closer to the right time of day for the
> ARRO (although I think a little late for that one,
> too). But this train is clearly the FAST.
>
> WAF, do you have any info on what were the first
> years of operation for the FMS FAST and the FMS
> ARRO. I am guessing 1970 or 1971 for the ARRO,
> probably a couple years earlier for the FAST, but
> I don't have any concrete data.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Rob L.

Goes back to 68 or 69 on the ARRO. I know for sure by Fall of 69, the ARRO was around going via Altamont. They just called it 'Autoparts" on the lineup. I'm assuming it was the ARRO as I assume the FAST was a WP train most of the time.

I used to wonder what he would think if the "Agent at Flint" would get up some morning and one of these cars would be in his front yard.

I'm not saying those cars on the pix said Flint, I was generalizing. I had no idea of the symbols of the trains I photographed. JEB

wabash2800 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What route would the Ford cars take closer to
> Detroit on the N&W? Detroit-Kansas City?

A lot of the traffic came off of the DT&I at Delta, OH, but you are correct about the KC gateway. If I remember right, Delta was considered the N&W origin point for the Ford Fast. Stretching my memory a bit more, I think some Ford parts were actually loaded at the loading docks at N&W's Oakwood Yard in Detroit, with the traffic being trucked in.

This train does have more of a Ford look to it. GM used some of the long hi-cubes that had two sets of doors on each side.

The boxcars in the forground look like the ExactRail Greenville boxcars, or similar.

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wabash2800 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What route would the Ford cars take closer to
> > Detroit on the N&W? Detroit-Kansas City?
>
> A lot of the traffic came off of the DT&I at
> Delta, OH, but you are correct about the KC
> gateway. If I remember right, Delta was considered
> the N&W origin point for the Ford Fast. Stretching
> my memory a bit more, I think some Ford parts were
> actually loaded at the loading docks at N&W's
> Oakwood Yard in Detroit, with the traffic being
> trucked in.
>
> This train does have more of a Ford look to it. GM
> used some of the long hi-cubes that had two sets
> of doors on each side.

That's what I though, couldn't remember exactly

Yes, Ford used single-door hi-cube cars while GM used double-door. N&W handled 100% of the Ford FAST business but not much more than 0% of the GM business. Hence the single-door N&W cars.

The FAST trains were made up at DT&I's Flat Rock, MI yard.(So those N&W hi-cubes were probably stenciled "When empty return to Agent, DT&I, Flat Rock, MI.") The route for the FAST trains was DT&I (a Ford owned the RR at one time) to Delta, OH, (an obscure station on N&W's ex-Wabash branch from Montpelier to Toledo), joining the ex-Wabash main at Montpelier, thence N&W (Wabash main) to Kansas City. The Southern California FAST interchanged at KC to ATSF, which hauled it to the Pico Rivera Ford plant.

The Bay Area FAST routing was more more complicated west of Kansas City. Every 90 days the route alternated between UP and MoP - DRGW. Moreover, every 90 days the route alternated betweeen SP and WP, but the switch date was offset by 30 days from the MoP/UP switch date. Ford wanted the participation of all the western roads in the Bay Area haul. They even tried the Rock Island between KC and Denver for a while (but the Rock couldn't perform adequately to keep the business).

The Bay Area assembly plants opened in the mid-60s, and of course there were auto parts shipments destined to Warm Springs and Milpitas from the beginning, but GM and Ford spread their shipments over multiple routes (UP, DRGW, etc.). Sometime circa 1969-1970, they told the RRs they wanted dedicated unit trains of their Bay Area parts and set-ups, and they would choose specific routes for the unit trains. The General Motors ARRO unit train to the Bay Area made up in the Rock Island's South Chicago Yard (because the sources for auto parts were spread out among many plant sites served by many different eastern roads), and because all the eastern roads came to South Chicago, the Rock was the fastest connection. Rock interchanged the ARRO to UP at Council Bluffs, who in turn interchanged it to SP at Ogden. (Parts loads from Fisher Body plants located in downstate Indiana and downstate Ohio moved via St. Louis and joined the South Chicago section at North Platte.) The GM ARRO train to Southern California made up in the IC's Markham Yard and was interchanged to Cotton Belt at East St. Louis for the SSW-SP run to the Van Nuys and South Gate assembly plants.

WAF, while I believe you that there were solid auto parts trains over Altamont in 1969 and earlier, I am not so sure GM had consolidated 100% of its Bay Area-destined parts and set-ups into a single route Chicago - Bay Area at that early date. When that consolidation happened, the ARRO was born. Similarly, I am not sure the FAST was started at the time of JEB's photo. I do know that Ford's set-ups for the Bay Area stayed on a DT&I-KC-N&W-ATSF-Stockton-WP routing until the end of 1971 (whereas the parts were moving via SP and WP by then). Perhaps the FAST was not born until the beginning of 1972. Or maybe the FAST was born before the set-ups joined the train. I don't know.

Best regards,

Rob L.

IC_2024 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great shot, JEB! And.... little has changed at
> this spot since it was taken so many years ago;
> however, we are east, not west, of Verdi at this
> location.
>
Thanks for the catch. I fixed it. There used to be, maybe it's still there, a rickedty wood bridge over the tracks that offered a good view of the tracks. JEB

FFT also handled cars out Ford's Claycomo plant. Sometimes we would pick the train up at Airline Jct, and other time it would be in the 100 yard at Neff. Also, most people don't know the FFT handled Chevy's out the Chevrolet Plant Leeds's which was on the way out of town on then what was the KC Sub. I once asked a guy from the Mopac's traffic department about this and he said, Yes we try and slip them on the FFT once and a while,but we never let Ford know that Chevy's were along for the ride.

For a fact, Rob, I can tell you the ARROs were running to Warm Springs in early 1972. GM didn't start the APW until mid 1970. Tough to tell what those autoparts over Altamont were. Perhaps Roseville pulled out all the autoparts from the FMS sections prior to 1971. SJX probably had both GM and Ford parts



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/12 10:22 by WAF.

WAF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For a fact, Rob, I can tell you the ARROs were
> running to Warm Springs in early 1972.

Yes, and for a fact I can tell you that FMS ARRO was running on UP and SP in Sept., 1971. But I don't know how much earlier the symbol was used.


> GM didn't
> start the APW until mid 1970.

APW was the LA auto parts? Perhaps the FMS ARRO started operation at the same time or up to a year thereafter.

> Tough to tell what
> those autoparts over Altamont were. Perhaps
> Roseville pulled out all the autoparts from the
> FMS sections prior to 1971.

Yes, without a wheeler it's hard to tell if it was a mixed Ford-GM train or if it was put together in Roseville from both UP and DRGW connections or if it was a pure transcon train.

> SJX probably had both
> GM and Ford parts.

That practice continued to the end. During periods when SP had the FAST contract, the OVE XA handled both GM and Ford empties.

Thanks for the help,

Rob L.