Nostalgia & History > Some early SJVR 1992/1995

I probably should have called this "what RR is this" but this is what I saw when the SJVR started up. Engines from all over the Kyle system including the SD&AE re-lettered to SJVR I think on the first day of service,

Now I was just watching to demise of the branch line network in the San Joaquin Valley of California south of Fresno, a slow death of branch lines that are mostly abandoned today.

All of the areas in these photos are in service today, but for how long.....Industry changes and so do the way Railroads do business.

1&2 are taken in Exeter in 1992

#3 was taken on the Lanco Branch in Bakersfield just north of Rosedale Highway in 1995. 1826 really shows off its IC colors doesn't it !!!


Once again thanks for looking


Jay

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Great Pix! Great comments-right on! The problem with SJVR or Rail America or whoever owns SJVR-is that they are a railroad company that doesn't seem to want to run a railroad. They seem much more interested is scrapping and salvage!

TomPlatten Wrote:
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> Great Pix! Great comments-right on! The problem
> with SJVR or Rail America or whoever owns SJVR-is
> that they are a railroad company that doesn't seem
> to want to run a railroad. They seem much more
> interested is scrapping and salvage!

While I applaud your passion for the old lines in the East Valley, I think you are placing blame in the wrong place. The lines that were abandonned and scrapped by the SJVR/TVRR were subjected to 30+ years of deferred maintenance and neglect by the Santa Fe and SP long before being cast off to the shortline. Restoring those lines to usefulness would have cost millions of dollars with no guarantee of any return on investment. I would recommend finding a copy of the March 2004 issue of Trains Magazine, there is a great article about the difficulties shortlines face in making marginal lines profitable after years of neglect by their predecessors. As for the East Valley: All of the high volume profitable perishable rail traffic goes to Railex in Delano by truck anyway, and other than the Walmart DC in Porterville, there are no other potential sizeable shippers in the area that would make the lines worth investing in anyway. In simple terms, not enough customers to justify repair and ongoing maintenance of these lines. Same goes for the Arvin Branch South of the Kern Oil Refinery, and the Sunset Railway South of Levee. On the other hand, the ex-SP Buttonwillow Branch is thriving with plenty of online customers. I work just a few blocks from the line and can attest that the SJVR definitely seems to want to run that branch as it sees traffic 7 days a week and 24 hours a day. In my opinion, the SJVR has done the same thing all railroads have done including the big Class I's. They trimmed off the unprofitable lines, while reinvesting in a smaller core of profitable lines. The Buttonwillow branch was a wobbly and crumbling 15 MPH railroad when the SP passed it on to the SJVR, today it is heavy welded rail handling multiple long heavy trains every day.

In the end, like all railroads the SJVR is not a public service. They are a for profit business that has investors to answer to. Keeping lines open just in case there may be shippers some time down the road does not pay the current bills. The only entity that can run an unprofitable business in perpetuity is the government, and even the government didn't want anything to do with those lines. Sad facts but true...I would have loved to see trains on those lines, but in all the years of my life all I ever saw on those lines were old brittle empty rails.

I was wondering about the Buttonwillow Branch and heard it had been revived. Could you get some Pix? As for the old Porterville Sub, the traffic was waning as early as the late 1950's when more and more produce farms went to truck farming!

The Buttonwiillow Branch was hardly "crumbling" when the SP had it as there had been substantial
track upgrades made prior to the sale. As to your statements, a smart shortline operator develops
traffic through relationships with everyone from shippers to local Chambers of Commerce. Take Dick
Samuels for instance, think he's sat around waiting for traffic to develop?? Proactive goes a long way
but then it is easier with quick payoffs to scrap rather than develop.

I must second Rich's words, in 1992 I almost went to work for the SJVR as a sales rep, you know the guy to FIND more business instead of just serving business. I did not get the Job but they called me in 1994 just as I had excepted a job in Carson, CA. The money was good at the SJVR but I just thought where I went was a better choice.

It is a fact, once Kyle sold out and Krebs was gone, the whole operation became a write off.

Fred Krebs impressed me in my job interview by telling me the SJVR was going to be successful by BUILDING business because business was not going to knock on their door. SJVR had to go find it !!!

The three things Fred wanted was....SERVICE...SERVICE and SERVICE for their customers

Anybody remember what saying SJVR used when it first started ???

"We are not a class one Railroad We are a first class Railroad !!!!!

Jay

rehunn Wrote:
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> The Buttonwiillow Branch was hardly "crumbling"
> when the SP had it as there had been substantial
> track upgrades made prior to the sale. As to your
> statements, a smart shortline operator develops
> traffic through relationships with everyone from
> shippers to local Chambers of Commerce. Take Dick
> Samuels for instance, think he's sat around
> waiting for traffic to develop?? Proactive goes a
> long way
> but then it is easier with quick payoffs to scrap
> rather than develop.

SP had planned to do track upgrades to serve the "new" customers on District Blvd., but only got a short stretch of track between Union Ave. and Wilson Rd. upgraded. The rest of the track remained in rough condition up until the SJVR takeover. As for being proactive, they have been in the Bakersfield area as there is enough potential traffic to justify the expenditure. I spent a lot of time working in the area between Ducor and Exeter, and the number of potential customers in the area would have never provided enough regular traffic to pay for the rebuilding of those lines. As for Dick Samuels, comparing the OPRR to the Exeter Branch is like comparing apples to oranges. If the Exeter Branch operated 12 miles of track through the suburbs of a large city like Portland like the OPRR, I'm sure they could have found ample customers to revive the line. Instead the line runs through rural farming area that is dotted by small underdeveloped and poor communities with little ability to attract large rail-using businesses to the area. Whose Chamber of Commerce did you want them to work with...Porterville? The Walmart DC opened before the SJVR took over the line, so it would seem that Porterville has no problem with heavy truck traffic in their town. In the end, the few potential customers in the area most likely just wanted the rail line available so they could pressure the trucking companies to lower their prices instead of being serious long term rail customers. If you put aside your personal feelings about wishing the ex-SP Exeter Branch and ex-ATSF Porterville Sub could have been saved you may see the realities. The lines served their purpose in bringing people and products to the area in the early 20th century, but once the road system was developed they became obsolete relics in the 50's.

As I stated before, I admire the passion...I love trains too. But I am also a realist that understands that nostalgia aside running a railroad costs money. I am only offering up my commentary as a differing opinion regarding the viability of these old rail lines. In a perfect world, the East Valley would grow in population and support large rail using customers that would build huge warehouses that would generate revenues and business that would help both the railroads and the communities they serve. Unfortunately those towns are more like the boomtowns of the old west, they grew quickly to tap the original potential of the area but are now contracting and slowly becoming nothing more than ghost towns and migrant farming camps that barely generate enough revenue to provide basic services to their residents.

As for pics of the Buttonwillow Branch...I have had the intention to do so but my work and family schedule has kept me from rail photography for years. As for working close to the line, well lets just say the area I work in is barely safe to be outdoors in the daytime and much of the traffic runs at night.

Aside from my railroad consulting activities I function as a sales and marketing specialist, I'm not
some wide eyed foamer. You picture yourself as a realist, I see you as a defeatist. We have differng
opinions, such as the nature of life.

Fred Krebs and Bill Tongate had the potential to make the SJVR something better than it has become. Bill was an excellent sales/service representative and strong advocate for the railroad. Fred was gung-ho from the start. Bill passed away a few years ago and Fred move back east somewhere.

John

I think it was significant that neither marketing specialist was replaced. I do agree that reviving substantial traffic on the old Porterville sub would have been challenging! However, when you have no active marketing plan and charge high tariffs to customers you insure the death of the line!

rehunn Wrote:
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> Aside from my railroad consulting activities I
> function as a sales and marketing specialist, I'm
> not
> some wide eyed foamer. You picture yourself as a
> realist, I see you as a defeatist. We have
> differng
> opinions, such as the nature of life.

Believe it or not I respect your opinions, even though I am in 180 degree disagreement with you. Since you chose to go the route of calling my opinion out by stating your credentials, here goes:

Even though I am not a railroad consultant I still do my homework and see absolutely no correlation between 12 miles of suburban branch line around Portland Oregon (OPRR) and 80+ miles of crumbling branch line through tiny and poor farming communities in Central California. As I stated before, the SJVR has done great things along the 20 or so miles of suburban branch line they operate aroud Bakersfield. This line I do believe is comparable to the OPRR and in this case I think the approach of the SJVR management has been very positive and proactive just like the Samuels family. Seeing the reality of needing to make a profit does not make me a defeatist. Does that mean that taking a paycheck from my employer instead of donating my services makes me a defeatist? Do you provide your consulting service to railroads free of charge, or do you only accept a commission on the revenues your suggestions create? As a sales and marketing specialist, are you paid a salary and expenses, or just commission on your generated sales? We all have bills to pay, and if we aren't making money our creditors will have no sympathy for us. If that makes me a defeatist, then I have been defeated my whole life...Sorry but I don't picture myself as a realist, I am surrounded by reality every day. Here is another question for you: Would you have risked your personal livelihood on the perceived successes of the SJVR lines between Exeter and Famoso? What I mean is, would you have invested your own personal money in rehabilitating those lines and only received revenue once the lines generated it? If not, then you would have been asking other investors to do something you weren't willing to do yourself. If so, then you must have money to burn because the lack of business in those areas is obvious to any person who drives through the area and sees all the abandonned commercial buildings dotting the countryside.

Reality #1: Most railroads built lines like the East Valley lines to capitalize on government land grants, which is why so many redundant rail lines were built in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Once they sold off the land and pocketed the revenue, for a small time the sale of those lands provided traffic and revenue for many of those lines. Once the traffic slowed or went away, the government forced the railroads to keep those lines for many years past their usefulness all the while the railroads deferred maintenance and allowed the lines to slowly become unuseable. Eventually they either abandonned the lines or spun them off to smaller operators who had to decide whether the lines were worth saving. Some get saved, others disappear.

Reality #2: The world since the early 1990's only answers to the corporate bottom line and stock profits. All companies today will sacrifice service to increase their stock dividend by 2 cents per share. This includes everything from the small business owner who's portfolio is filled with corporate stock holdings to big company CEO's whos stock options include millions of shares of company stock. We can place blame all we want, but it is just the way it is.

Reality #3: The SJVR/Kyle/StatesRail/RailAmerica/G&W did not let those lines rust away for 30+ years...the SP/ATSF did.

Reality #4: Maybe if the government subsidized the rail industry the same way they do to the trucking industry (last time I checked, trucks use publicly maintained right-of-ways while most railroads must maintain their own), we wouldn't be having this discussion. Think of what would happen if trucking companies had to foot more of the bill to keep roads in good repair, after all they already pass surcharges for fuel cost on to their customers. Maybe then the shipping rates would allow rail to be more competitive with smaller and LTL shipments. As it is, rail now focuses on large bulk shipments and unit service and lets trucks have short haul and single carload business...I guess that means the rail industry is defeatist as well.

As for the Buttonwillow Branch, here are a few photos taken of the line in 1989 just 3 years before the SJVR takeover. This same location today is welded rail on clean ballasted roadbed. This branch was one of the lucky ones that were saved. Just a few miles from here is the Sunset Railway, one of the not so lucky ones. They can't all be saved, whether or not you are an optimistic railroad consultant/sales and marketing specialist or if you are an uneducated defeatist railfan.

Once again, I admire your passion and wish the Warren Buffett's of the world shared the same passion and would invest in rebuilding old rail lines. Unfortunately most investors want to see almost immediate return on investment, and already have their chosen money losing tax shelters. Unfortunately we live in a world of short attention span and the need for immediate gratification.

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I would hate to take a loaded tank car out on that track! I agree SP and SF allowed the track to deteriorate in the Tulare Valley. That was evident to me--even as a young rail fan--back in the late 50's witnessing the sleepy SF line with its tiny wig-wags. Tracks that see a train maybe once a week don't get top maintenance! The man I talked to a Cal-Citrus in Lindsay told me he had never seen a car spotted at the packing house in the twenty years he had worked there. That was in 1986!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/12 15:23 by TomPlatten.

I have to make a comment here about the Santa Fe and Southern Pacific neglecting their tracks. If I remember correctly, the Santa Fe local on both the Ducor to Portherville-Exeter branch as well as the Visalia District still ran at 40mph and the SP lines went from 20mph down to 10mph. And this was in 1991/1992.

And I saw this standing track side, 40mph on the Santa Fe was smooth, 40mph on the SP would have had cars scattered on the ground !!!!


Jay