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Nostalgia & History > Early CR Question


Date: 01/11/17 13:22
Early CR Question
Author: ns2557

Back when CR first formed units from the various roads started straying off the home roads early on. April 4 1976 were the first I have recorded in my notes and those were 3 EL units that got into Enola. In goind thru my notes from over the years, (I am re-doing them all into a new format, since the old one is not supported anymore) I came across a few questions that I can't remember (CRS and all that)

Question 1.  Of the LV C628's that went to CR, at merger time, which ones were in the "Snow Bird" or Blk & Wht and which ones were in Red?

Question 2. Another LV ?  The D&H was given the Valley's C420's. How many and which ones were still in " Original Gray/Yellow Pnt"? I know some were Red but once again CRS is preventing me from recalling which ones were which. I do have a shot of 1 or 2 in the Gray/Yellow that were on the D&H that I got at Enola in 76.

Question 3.  I noticed that some of the first units renumbered were EL U36C's. At least from what I can make of my notes from back then. Some U25B's also. These were not repainted, just re nmbrd. Were these done at the ol EL facilities or  perhaps at one of the other shops not of EL?

Not a question, but an observation from back then.  My notes I have started in 1975. In looking at them, I noticed a pattern of sorts. It appears that most ex Pennsy units were well represented in the HBG/Enola area for obvious reasons. The NYC units that apperaed the most in my notes were GP40's/U25B's.  As time went on prior to CR the U30B's and even the 2 U28B's that NYC proper had (That is non PLE ones, 2822 & 2823) started showing up more frequently. Even some E Units were to be seen.  Did not see any old NYC ALCO's or GP7/9. The NYC GP35's showed up just a few times and the GP20's, well, not at all. (Well I did see one). Was the differences in Management Style/ Red vs Green/ perhaps the main reason for this or was there a more simple reason.

Like I said just some observations from an interesting time. Kinda neat to look back over almost 40 years and see what was around back then.  Amtrak even had a few P30CH's show up in Hbg, which was really something to see, and even the E60CP's were seen also.   Thansk for any replies. Appreciate it.  Ben



Date: 01/11/17 13:57
Re: Early CR Question
Author: CPR_4000

I'm pretty sure the majority of CR GE's were assigned to Selkirk for maintenance, and it's likely that's where the CR renumbering was done. Four LV 628's were still white at the CR merger, but I don't remember exactly which ones. They were assigned to Mingo Jct. Most of the 6-motor EMD's were assigned to Enola (ex-PRR) and the second generation GP's were assigned to Collinwood (with some GP40's assigned to Beacon Park).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/17 13:59 by CPR_4000.



Date: 01/11/17 14:12
Re: Early CR Question
Author: valmont

Here' what I have on an old list of Conrail slides from my collection...  maroon: 6724, 25, 35  white: 6728, 30, 31
certainly not the complete list you were looking for but maybe it will help

pics #1 2/10/77 & #2 2/3/78  by 'Jungle' Jim Marcus @ Cleveland, #3 unknown









Date: 01/11/17 14:47
Re: Early CR Question
Author: ns2557

CPR_4000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm pretty sure the majority of CR GE's were
> assigned to Selkirk for maintenance, and it's
> likely that's where the CR renumbering was done.
> Four LV 628's were still white at the CR merger,
> but I don't remember exactly which ones. They were
> assigned to Mingo Jct. Most of the 6-motor EMD's
> were assigned to Enola (ex-PRR) and the second
> generation GP's were assigned to Collinwood (with
> some GP40's assigned to Beacon Park).

CPR_4000,  Thanks. I believe that all PC then CR 6 axle SD's, (the 35/40/45 types) were maintained at either HBG or Enola. They were the main power seen in the area. The PC E unit fleet was also maintained at HBG. Used to see the E7's come into HBG from the east on weekends for maint then go back east for the commuter trains in Jersey. There were some of the PC GP38/-2's also assisigend to HBG along with a few GP30/35/9 types. The GP40's, as ya said were at Selkirk or Beacon Park/Collinwood. Most ALCO's were at Conway or DeWitt in Syracuse from what I recall. GE's were all Selkirk except a batch of U23B's that were at Buckeye Yrd in Columbus. At leats that is what I can remember.   Ben



Date: 01/11/17 14:49
Re: Early CR Question
Author: ns2557

valmont Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here' what I have on an old list of Conrail slides
> from my collection...  maroon: 6724, 25, 35 
> white: 6728, 30, 31
> certainly not the complete list you were looking
> for but maybe it will help
>
> pics #1 2/10/77 & #2 2/3/78  by 'Jungle' Jim
> Marcus @ Cleveland, #3 unknown

 It does help a bunch. Most fo the early sightings I saw were when they were still in LV style paint either white or red, won't be hard to figure out which LV numbered units these were. Thanks for sharing the shots Ben



Date: 01/11/17 15:00
Re: Early CR Question
Author: BigSkyBlue

ns2557 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Not a question, but an observation from back then.
>  My notes I have started in 1975. In looking at
> them, I noticed a pattern of sorts. It appears
> that most ex Pennsy units were well represented in
> the HBG/Enola area for obvious reasons. The NYC
> units that apperaed the most in my notes were
> GP40's/U25B's.  As time went on prior to CR the
> U30B's and even the 2 U28B's that NYC proper had
> (That is non PLE ones, 2822 & 2823) started
> showing up more frequently. Even some E Units were
> to be seen.  Did not see any old NYC ALCO's or
> GP7/9. The NYC GP35's showed up just a few times
> and the GP20's, well, not at all. (Well I did see
> one). Was the differences in Management Style/ Red
> vs Green/ perhaps the main reason for this or was
> there a more simple reason.

A more pragmatic reason for the power assignments you describe is the use of cab signals on large portions of the former PRR lines.  While units built for PC had them and some NYC units were also equipped after the PC merger, many former NYC units did not have cab signals and so were not qualified to lead in the HBG/Enola area.
BSB



Date: 01/11/17 15:14
Re: Early CR Question
Author: ns2557

BigSkyBlue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ns2557 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Not a question, but an observation from back
> then.
> >  My notes I have started in 1975. In looking
> at
> > them, I noticed a pattern of sorts. It appears
> > that most ex Pennsy units were well represented
> in
> > the HBG/Enola area for obvious reasons. The NYC
> > units that apperaed the most in my notes were
> > GP40's/U25B's.  As time went on prior to CR
> the
> > U30B's and even the 2 U28B's that NYC proper
> had
> > (That is non PLE ones, 2822 & 2823) started
> > showing up more frequently. Even some E Units
> were
> > to be seen.  Did not see any old NYC ALCO's or
> > GP7/9. The NYC GP35's showed up just a few
> times
> > and the GP20's, well, not at all. (Well I did
> see
> > one). Was the differences in Management Style/
> Red
> > vs Green/ perhaps the main reason for this or
> was
> > there a more simple reason.
>
> A more pragmatic reason for the power assignments
> you describe is the use of cab signals on large
> portions of the former PRR lines.  While units
> built for PC had them and some NYC units were also
> equipped after the PC merger, many former NYC
> units did not have cab signals and so were not
> qualified to lead in the HBG/Enola area.
> BSB

I had completely forgot about this fact, and it does sound more like the reason. I know the Ex NYC GP40's lead quite a bit as did the U25B's, both on Mail 9 & 11. Tho they were usually added to the head end of a brace of 5 or so E Units on the Mail Trains. HBG/Enola only had one route into the HBG/Enola that was not cab signal and that was the Buffalo Line from what I recall. The track south thru Camp Hill and Mechanicsburg Pa, the ol Cumberland Valley Line was another and I would see non Pennsy (NYC Units) leading on that line. RDG came into HBG from Rutherford thru the yards at HBG for transfers, but most of that was yard trackage. I recall after the CR merger that the B&O/WM trains off the Lurgan Branch which saw non cab signal equiped units leading off the RDG at CP Capitol up the PRR Main then across the Rockville Bridge, but that was all with Rules 550-556.  Thanks BSB, some of that CRS cleared abit.  Ben



Date: 01/11/17 16:15
Re: Early CR Question
Author: RayH

From memory only, 40+ years later, I believe there were 2 LV Yellow Jacket 420's that went to the D&H, 412 and 413.

As for the Valley 628's, I "think" it was 626, 632 and 634 that were the three remaining Snowbirds. Someone else said there were 4, I thought there were 3.
 



Date: 01/11/17 17:02
Re: Early CR Question
Author: jburek

I know the 626 was still a "Snowbird" at conrail time & the 412, 413 were the only C420's never to be re painted by the Valley.



Date: 01/12/17 09:53
Re: Early CR Question
Author: march_hare

RayH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From memory only, 40+ years later, I believe there
> were 2 LV Yellow Jacket 420's that went to the
> D&H, 412 and 413.
>
> As for the Valley 628's, I "think" it was 626, 632
> and 634 that were the three remaining Snowbirds.
> Someone else said there were 4, I thought there
> were 3.
>  

I can confirm that the only yellowjacket 420s were 412 and 413.  Not sure about the C628s.



Date: 01/12/17 10:36
Re: Early CR Question
Author: Lackawanna484

I saw several former EL units on mail trains, intermodals etc on the Middle Division, etc in PA following the merger.

It's possible that the diversion of some through business from EL to Pennsy caused the EL road power to follow the business.  It's also possible that EL (and Reading Company) power may have been in better shape than the Pennsy power.
 



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