Nostalgia & History > How did flag stops work in the old days

In the past, say the 1950's or before, how did timetable designated flag stops work for picking up passengers? There would likely be no way to get advance word to a train's conductor or engineer. Did a train have to approach each such location prepared to stop, looking for a wannabe passenger waving their arm or something?  How about during darkness? How often did trains fail to stop? 

Thanks

At attended station stops, the telegrapher or agent would come out and flag the train down with a white flag.

I don't think on the UP we had any passenger stops at unattended stations.

Best regards,

Rob L.

at wamego the agent went with us, did the flagging, those agents loved passengers
 

There's a Donald Duke photo on p. 118 of Duke/Kistler's Santa Fe book showing a passenger waving the white flag (in the gauge!) to get a northbound San Diegan (1960s?) to flag stop at Encinitas.

There's another photo with it showing the station's daily arrivals/departures board and a statement at the bottom of the board "USE WHITE FLAG TO STOOP TRAINS", so although the station still looks "open", it's obviously no longer staffed.

2-10-2

Was this the same thing as a whistle stop?

Posted from iPhone

I believe that the South Shore (NICTD) still has a couple of flag stops. Passengers turn on a strobe light to flag the train. 

Alaska still has flag stops way out in the middle of nowhere without buildings or platforms. If you order your groceries from town they will stop and set the boxes on the ground for you to pick up.

See page 15 of the SP Salt Lake Div timetable of 1951--

http://wx4.org/to/foam/sp/maps/zukasETT/1951-04-29SP_SaltLake67-TimZukas.pdf

Trains 23 and 24 were supposed to stop at any station
on the division, to board passengers for any station.
No restrictions. So yeah, one wonders how well they
lived up to that.

(And "Additional Stations" are stations too.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/18 13:45 by timz.

ERAD Wrote:
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> Was this the same thing as a whistle stop?
>
> Posted from iPhone


A whistle stop is not defined in railroad rules, and has no official or unofficial railroad meaning.

A flag stop is, and does.

-John

I flagged the Peoria Rocket in April 1976.  I was with the American Freedom Train at the time.  I snuck away from the AFT for a few days while the train was in St Louis to visit my Grandmother and Uncle in Chillicothe.  To start back to St Louis I first caught the Rocket in Chillicothe.  It was a flag stop, and, well, you simply started "flagging" when you saw the headlight.  I used the white binder next to my bags on the ground in the top photo for my flag.  This was not quite as dramatic as it might sound- track speed couldn't have been much over 20mph!
SR

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We have a flagstop on the North Shore Scenic Railroad, at Larsmont.  The resort there sells tickets to their guests for the last few miles of our trip to Two Harbors and return.  The resort is supposed to call Duluth Depot when they sell tickets.  Sometimes they do,  Ususally not.  Some conductors call the resort to ask, but straight answers are the exception.  So you just approach Larsmont ready and watching.  Sometimes people come running toward the station when they hear us approaching,

Northbound there's a tiny shelter and platform about 10 feet long a few hundred feet beyond a right hand curve.  The ROW is prettty well forested, so you can't see it until you;re almost out of the curve.  30 MPH track speed here.  If you see people at the shelter, just grab a handful of air, back the throttle off, then take a second reduction and radio the conductor to ask him which door he'll be at.   You'll be down to about 5 MPH by the time the engine reaches the platform, knock off the air, then spot the door via the conduictors radio signals.

Southbound we only stop to let off passengers, so we already know if we picked up anyone on the Northbound trip.  Sometimes the people we have picked up northbound find Two Harbors emporiums are so hospitable that they elect to forgo the return trip, saving us a stop.

-John

Whistle stop is a term used for political campaign trains designating stops to make appearances/speeches.

The South Shore Electric has flag stops at Clark Road in Gary, Beverly Shores, and Hudson Lake.  You use the stobe light or the train does not stop.

I grew up along the Chicago Aurora and Elgin and they had semaphores at the Poplar Avenue Flag stop in Elmhurst.

Rick Burn

A flag stop is a small "f" in the time table  at the station effected.  If it was more than a regular flag stop, more information would be listed under Special Instructions.

Example:   "Additional Flag Stops, Etc., To Receive Or Discharge Traffic"
                  "Conditional Flag Stops Etc., are designated by "c" in schedule column, and are for traffic shown below"

Train            Station           Kind                                        Frequency            Receive To             Discharge From            For Other Traffic
   75        King City         Reduce speed to 10 MPH              Daily                                                                                       To Exchange US Mail
   75          Paso Robles       Flag                                          Daily                    San Jose               Santa Barbara
   76      Santa Margarita      Stop                                          Daily                                                                                      To Exchange US Mail
   91          Chorro                 Flag                                        Mon. & Fri                                                                                To Detrain men & Supplies




This is just one example.  Now on the Western/Coast in the City, a lot of trains were shown as flag stops for commute stops.  

143         Bayshore           Flag                                   Daily exc. Sun & Hol                                                                        To entrain and detrain employees


Nudge

 

Storey was the ATSF station a few miles east of Madera, California, in the 40s. The Golden Gate streamliner did not stop there but locals could be flagged. I was quite young in those days but recall seeing
my Dad wave a big red flag to stop the train so we could go to Bakersfield. The SP had a depot in the middle of town where the SJ Daylight and their other trains stopped. I think the Amtrak trains use the Storey site now.

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

Many stations would have a box on the platform or station containing a white or a  white and green flag that the passenger would wave at the train.
If it was a staffed station, the agent or clerk would flag the train.

Back in the late 40's as a teen age railfan, would flag AT&SF train 23 at Corona Calif on Sunday mornings for the telegrapher..  Engineer would respond with two whistles. Great fun for a kid.

BoilingMan Wrote:
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> I flagged the Peoria Rocket in April 1976.  I was
> with the American Freedom Train at the time.  I
> snuck away from the AFT for a few days while the
> train was in St Louis to visit my Grandmother and
> Uncle in Chillicothe.  To start back to St Louis
> I first caught the Rocket in Chillicothe.  It was
> a flag stop, and, well, you simply started
> "flagging" when you saw the headlight.  I used
> the white binder next to my bags on the ground in
> the top photo for my flag.  This was not quite as
> dramatic as it might sound- track speed couldn't
> have been much over 20mph!
> SR

Great photos!

rhburn3 Wrote:
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> The South Shore Electric has flag stops at Clark
> Road in Gary, Beverly Shores, and Hudson Lake. 
> You use the stobe light or the train does not
> stop.
>
> I grew up along the Chicago Aurora and Elgin and
> they had semaphores at the Poplar Avenue Flag stop
> in Elmhurst.
>
> Rick Burn

If memory serves, I think the 'light on a pole' to signal an approaching train to stop is a recent (20 years or less?) addition on the South Shore.  Or, at least, a vandal-proof light installed in that time as vandals would smash it, unscrew it, etc.  I clearly recall the sign 'passengers will use light at night', probably referring to a light on a pole, but I don't recall seeing one.  Having ridden on the front platform with the motorman a fair number of times 1973-1990 or so, I heard stories of passengers simply lighting a match, or an entire matchbook, or lighting a rolled up newspaper on fire, and sometimes they even had a flashlight! 

A side note on lights on a pole.  For a few years, Citizens Bus Lines, Tucson AZ to Nogales had a couple of flag stops near ramps on the freeway.  So the passenger would switch on a light, that the driver could see a safe distance on the highway, to use the next off ramp and pick up the passenger.

On the Dominion Atlantic unmanned stations were set-up with a green and white flag, one took the flag and placed it in the holder that was mounted on the side of the shelter.  Many CN stations in the Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec City and southern Ontario area had stations with crossing lights on a mast.  Instead of two red lenses when used at a road crossing, one green and one white (clear) lenses were installed. The agent would flick a switch and the lights would flash green and white thus letting the headed end crew on the passenger train the people were to be pickup at the flag stop.

Photo 1 & 2: My wife flagging my train at Searchmont ON.  She will head down to "The Soo" with the car and pick me up.  March 29, 2015
Photo 3: CN Burlington West ON  September 1984

Gerry Gaugl
Ottawa ON



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/18 18:06 by moonliter.

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