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Nostalgia & History > DD40F?


Date: 01/10/19 10:28
DD40F?
Author: BoilingMan

Now here's a thought...
If the ATSF had followed the UP and SP's lead, and ordered some DD twin powered units, would they have gone with cowls?
That would have been bitch'n!
SR

 




Date: 01/10/19 10:42
Re: DD40F?
Author: PHall

Santa Fe doing double motor diesels, other then EMD E Units, was not likely.
Remember, after their early  not-so-good experiences in the 1910's they didn't have any articulated steam locomotives until WWII when they were desperate.



Date: 01/10/19 10:52
Re: DD40F?
Author: BoilingMan

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Santa Fe doing double motor diesels, other then
> EMD E Units, was not likely.
> Remember, after their early  not-so-good
> experiences in the 1910's they didn't have any
> articulated steam locomotives until WWII when they
> were desperate.

Yes, I know (and they didn't exactly embrace the E's either!) but I got to thinking about all the DD's in the Cajon pics I've been posting, and this one set me to wondering how a full cowl version would have looked...
SR



Date: 01/10/19 10:59
Re: DD40F?
Author: callum_out

No SF double motor diesels? How many motors (engines) did the big Baldwins have?

Out



Date: 01/10/19 11:14
Re: DD40F?
Author: HotWater

First, lets try and remember that the "motors" are under the units, mounted on the axles within the trucks. The prime mover, i.e. diesel engine/engines are located within the carbody, above the underframe.

Second, since the DDA40X superseded the DD35A, obviously any additional sales of EMD "DD" units would of course had the full width nose cab arrangement as used on the UP DDA40X. That said, by that time the model designation might very well have been "DDA40-2", as the more advanced modular electrical control design, first used in the DDA40X, plus the improved internal engine components and the "F" engine series crankcase up-grades, would have resulted in a "DDA40-2".



Date: 01/10/19 11:16
Re: DD40F?
Author: santafe199

Even as an ardent Santa Fe fan (and 9 year train service employee) I believe I would have had mixed emotions on any such SFe double diesels. I have a great deal of trouble seeing a DD fit into Santa Fe's carefully crafted public image. NOT that public image would have been a #1 priority of the Mechanical Department. That being said, wasn't Santa Fe the FIRST to acquire that wide, boxy nose design from EMD?? Didn't it show first up on the Red & Silver passenger FP-45s in 1967(?), 2 years ahead of Centennials? Granted, I'm being a bit snooty here (if you'll pardon the pun... ;^)

Lance/199

PS: I was under the impression that SP was only following UP's lead...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/19 11:18 by santafe199.



Date: 01/10/19 11:34
Re: DD40F?
Author: BoilingMan

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First, lets try and remember that the "motors" are
> under the units, mounted on the axles within the
> trucks. The prime mover, i.e. diesel
> engine/engines are located within the carbody,
> above the underframe.
>
> Second, since the DDA40X superseded the DD35A,
> obviously any additional sales of EMD "DD" units
> would of course had the full width nose cab
> arrangement as used on the UP DDA40X. That said,
> by that time the model designation might very well
> have been "DDA40-2", as the more advanced modular
> electrical control design, first used in the
> DDA40X, plus the improved internal engine
> components and the "F" engine series crankcase
> up-grades, would have resulted in a "DDA40-2".

So, Jack, if there HAD been a full cowl 40-2 series DD locomotive (humor me here) I would think there would have been an "F" in the name mix.  Amtrak SDP40F style: DDA40F-2, or Santa Fe F45 style:  FDD40-2?
How would you name it?
SR

BTW:  Was the term "Big Jack", for Centennials, a HotWater reference?



Date: 01/10/19 12:11
Re: DD40F?
Author: santafe199

BoilingMan Wrote: BTW:  Was the term "Big Jack", for Centennials, a HotWater reference?

NO



Date: 01/10/19 12:14
Re: DD40F?
Author: HotWater

BoilingMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > First, lets try and remember that the "motors"
> are
> > under the units, mounted on the axles within
> the
> > trucks. The prime mover, i.e. diesel
> > engine/engines are located within the carbody,
> > above the underframe.
> >
> > Second, since the DDA40X superseded the DD35A,
> > obviously any additional sales of EMD "DD"
> units
> > would of course had the full width nose cab
> > arrangement as used on the UP DDA40X. That
> said,
> > by that time the model designation might very
> well
> > have been "DDA40-2", as the more advanced
> modular
> > electrical control design, first used in the
> > DDA40X, plus the improved internal engine
> > components and the "F" engine series crankcase
> > up-grades, would have resulted in a "DDA40-2".
>
> So, Jack, if there HAD been a full cowl 40-2
> series DD locomotive (humor me here) I would
> think there would have been an "F" in the name
> mix.

Probably not, as it would NOT have had a full-width carbody, represented by the letter "F". Manufacturing an "F carbody" in the 40, 40-2, 45, or 45-2 series was one thing, but designing a "DD" unit with an "F carbody" would have been counter productive, as even the UP did NOT desire full-width carbody units by that time. Also, since the "F carbody" was essentially developed/designed for passenger service anyway, there would not really be a need for a full-width carbody DDA40-2.

Amtrak SDP40F style: DDA40F-2, or Santa Fe
> F45 style:  FDD40-2?
> How would you name it?
> SR

Now, concerning the infamous Amtrak SDP40F,,,,,,,,,, the "strange model designation" was actually a result of President Nixon's price & wage freeze policy, back in 1971/1972. Without getting too deep into the legalities of how that government policy affected EMD, the problem was related to NOT being allowed to offer/sell/price a new model passenger unit required by Amtrak at that time. The new model proposal, originally began as a P40 or P45, depending on whether Amtrak want a 3000HP unit or a 3600 HP unit. One of the main sticking points with developing a "new model" unit for Amtrak, back then, was,,,,,,,,,,if Amtrak failed, any and all "new units" they purchased would have to be usable by any freight railroads. Thus, the basic concept of a 6 axle "freight" unit specifically tailored for Amtrak was a major design requirement. 

When President Nixon's price & wage "rules" hit, EMD would have had to submit a complete cost & pricing audit of every "new model", for review by the Feds! There was NO WAY that EMD management, nor GM management, was going to allow THAT!!!!!  So,,,,,,,an existing model, the SD40 (remember this was just prior to the formal announcement of the dash-2 series units) which was currently in production with an already established base price, was used as the basic starting point for the "customized" model for Amtrak. The SD40, modified for passenger service, thus the added "P" in the model designation, then also modified with a full-width carbody, thus the "F" added on the end of the model designation, came about. Known as the SDP40F (Amtrak did not desire the higher HP 45 series unit).

>
> BTW:  Was the term "Big Jack", for
> Centennials, a HotWater reference?

Nope. Sorry, I had nothing to do with that.



Date: 01/10/19 12:40
Re: DD40F?
Author: Sneebly

So here is some fun.

http://sbiii.com/emd.html

Scroll down quite a ways to see the latest ROFL

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/19 12:46 by Sneebly.



Date: 01/10/19 17:50
Re: DD40F?
Author: dan

calling drew1946



Date: 01/10/19 18:02
Re: DD40F?
Author: callum_out

The Baldwin RT24s had two engines and massive cowls, you kids are out having lunch.

Out



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/19 20:10 by callum_out.



Date: 01/10/19 20:30
Re: DD40F?
Author: SP4360

Those are some ral laughers, but I do like the looks of the Santa Fe 3 unit  LOL

Sneebly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So here is some fun.
>
> http://sbiii.com/emd.html
>
> Scroll down quite a ways to see the latest ROFL
>
>  



Date: 01/10/19 22:18
Re: DD40F?
Author: BoilingMan

Sneebly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So here is some fun.
>
> http://sbiii.com/emd.html
>
> Scroll down quite a ways to see the latest ROFL
>
>  

Okay. Wow!
I’m impressed.
SR



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