Nostalgia & History > A Few KCS Passenger Photos

I was in college at the University of Arkansas in the first half of the 60's and, after I finally acquired a used 1959 VW, would sometimes drive over to the KCS at Westville, OK.  Trains 1 and 2 met 8.5 miles south of there at Watts, so you were assured those trains and usually there was a southbound freight somewhere in the mix.  Here are a couple examples.  In the photo of 23 at Watts, train 1 is in the siding waiting for 2 -- this was not a station stop for either train so notice the mail sack in the crane ready for 2.

1.  Watts, OK 11-15-63
2.  Stillwell, OK 12-20-63
3.  Watts, OK 12-13-63


Gordon



 

---

---

---

Absolutely historic!  Great action photos.
Thanks for your posting.
ALLEN

Nice shots!  Old KCS RR Pittsburg, KS based passneger trains crews worked Pittsburg, KS-Kansas City, MO-Watts, OK-Pittsburg, KS.  Pittsburg, KS based engine crews worked to and from Kansas City and worked south to and from Watts, OK. (correction!).
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/20 17:37 by RodneyZona.

Thanks for these great pictures.  KCS #23 became C&NW #5031B in 1970.  Gerry

The 5031B at Kenosha, WI on it's weekend layover back in 1982.  They got rid of the horn cluster.
I guess I had never noticed that foothould ledge before either.

---

GPutz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for these great pictures.  KCS #23 became
> C&NW #5031B in 1970.  Gerry

Thanks (also to mp51w for the photo) as I had never really thought about where any of these ended up.  The 23 was an E-9m, remanufactured from a wreck-damaged E-3 of the same number.

Gordon

RodneyZona Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice shots!  Old KCS RR Pittsburg, KS passneger
> trains and engine crews worked Pittsburg,
> KS-KC-Watts, OK-Pittsburg.
>

Rodney, are you saying that the crews worked a turn between Kansas City and Watts, beginning and ending at Pittsburg?  If so, then do I assume they swapped with the crew working north from, I guess, Heavener who also made a turn?  Would the exchange be made at whatever point the meet occurred?  These trains operated consistently on time (those were the days!), but there were obviously times when something would cause a delay.

Gordon 

gbmott Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RodneyZona Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nice shots!  Old KCS RR Pittsburg, KS
> passenger
> > trains and engine crews worked Pittsburg,
> > KS-KC-Watts, OK-Pittsburg.
> >
>
> Rodney, are you saying that the crews worked a
> turn between Kansas City and Watts, beginning and
> ending at Pittsburg?  If so, then do I assume
> they swapped with the crew working north from, I
> guess, Heavener who also made a turn?  Would the
> exchange be made at whatever point the meet
> occurred?  These trains operated consistently on
> time (those were the days!), but there were
> obviously times when something would cause a
> delay.
>
If I may add my pocket change here, I think, (always a dangerous proposition), what Rodney is saying here is that the
passenger crew assignments for both enginemen and trainmen were home terminal-ed at Pittsburg, Kansas. 
In actual practice, using Rodney's scheme, a crew would begin their work cycle by taking No. 2 from Pittsburg to Kansas City
and go off duty. Next, they would take No. 1 from Kansas City to Watts, a distance of 235 miles (plus the mileage from
KCUS to Knoche Yard), and after another rest period they would then, (here I go thinking again), take the next northward
passenger back home to Pittsburg thereby completing the cycle. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

Any KCS vets around to confirm or deny?

Charlie


 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/20 10:36 by cewherry.

cewherry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any KCS vets around to confirm or deny?
>
> Charlie

I think this is what we really need, Charlie.  KC-Pittsburg is 128 miles, Pittsburg-Watts is 106 and Watts-Heavener is 103.  Watts was/is a CTC siding location and was the scheduled meeting point of trains 1 and 2.  It was not, at least in 1964, a passenger stop for these trains, but a flag stop for 15-16 (which did not meet there).  The scheduled running times, if Pittsburg-Watts and Heavener-Watts were both crewed as turns, would have been 4'30" for the Pittsburg crew and 4'25" for the Heavener crew.  You add on- and off-duty time and it would still certainly seem do-able provided there was an agreement to adjust the crew swap site if either train was significantly delayed. 

I assume these were straight-away runs for freight crews.  This is fun -- I hope someone can give us a definitive answer!

Gordon

Great stuff, Gordon! I have a big soft spot for the KCS: My paternal Grandmother rode the Southern Belle many times between Kansas City & Texarkana in the 50s & 60s.

Lance