Nostalgia & History > The "City of San Francisco" at Giant 1964.

The Oakland bound "City of San Francisco " rolls through Giant between Rodeo and Richmond in 1964.

Robert Morris
Dunsmuir, CA
Robert Morris Photography

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Would I be mistaken to say that it could be the Overland instead? I would think that the COSF would have more than 4 passenger cars in 1964, not to mention fewer, if any, head-end cars.

27 or 28?

alally8444 Wrote:
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> Would I be mistaken to say that it could be the
> Overland instead? I would think that the COSF
> would have more than 4 passenger cars in 1964, not
> to mention fewer, if any, head-end cars.

The Overland was gone by this time. SP finally got it consolodated with the COSF in 1962 with the ok of the ICC. SP was required keep the name after consolodation until January, 1964. and operate sections as needed.
The name was dropped in January 1964. 
This could be a COSF train before or after the heavy summer travel season. Seems to be at least one UP chair car lurking in that consist. The trailing car is a 10-6 Budd Pullman, with a coffee shop, HGL, or modified dining car converted to a diner lounge configuration directly ahead. Probably not the Cascade with the UP baggage car ahead of the chair cars.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/20 16:35 by ATSF3751.

Overflow 101 running as 27. Tain was still on the ETT, annulled as needed

Great black and white photo of a by-gone era. Even the jointed rail tells a history lesson.

27/28 aren't in the 4/64 empl timetable --
don't recall whether they're in the 
previous one.

Three units for an eight car train? They must not trust those PA's too much.

          I think they did NOT in fact trust the PA's.

If SP did not trust the PA, why would DJR have one assigned to his Specials on the Overland and Cascade routes as late as 1966?

wow love to see pics!

Front view of the same train which shows Train 101 in the number boards. I remember when I took this it was an unusual length train.

Robert Morris
Dunsmuir, CA
Robert Morris Photography

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Photo also shows the tracks going into the Giant Powder Company, shut down in 1960. If you look closely you can still see traces today.

Great shots of that train which was manned by its SP RR Oakland, CA train and engine crews to and from Sacramento, CA

timz Wrote:
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> 27/28 aren't in the 4/64 empl timetable --
> don't recall whether they're in the 
> previous one.

From Wikipedia:

The introduction of the then five-times-a-month dieselized streamliner City of San Francisco in 1936 began the relegation of the Overland to secondary status on the Overland Route.[27] By January, 1955 the train carried only two Chicago–Oakland through cars and ceased operation on the C&NW altogether on October 30, 1955.[28] While the UP the dropped any Overland designation from its service in 1956, the SP held out for another six years retaining the name San Francisco Overland for trains 27 and 28 between San Francisco and Ogden until that last vestige of the line's original 1899 Overland Limited as a separate named train providing year-round daily service[29] ended on July 16, 1962.[26][30][31] On that date the ICC's recent order (Docket #21946) approving of its discontinuation and consolidation with the City of San Francisco went into effect and new Overland Route schedules were instituted.[32][33] The Overland continued only as titular seasonal summer and holiday service consolidated with the City of San Francisco except when run as an occasional second section if heavy seasonal traffic warranted until January 2, 1964 after which the Overland name disappeared forever from the route.[34][35] The SP declined to revive the train's name in 1964 amid some controversy.[36][37]

Love this shot!! Makes me feel like I was there as it just went by! Nicely done!!

Bill Rettberg
Bel Air, MD

Well, here's my theory, subject to correction by WAF, ATSF3751, PHLONE and other SP passenger train historians on this board.  In 1964, Train 101, the City of San Francisco, carried:
5 or more headend cars including an RPO and a dormitory-baggage
3 chair cars from Chicago (6 in the peak season)
1 chair car from Ogden (at least in the summer)
1 chair car from St. Louis (off UP #9)
1 chair car from Kansas City (off UP #9)
1 automat car from Ogden 
1 dome lounge from Ogden
1 dining car from Ogden
2 sleeping cars from Chicago (4 in the peak season)
1 sleeping car from St. Louis (off UP #9)
The train in this photograph is clearly not the full consist of the City of San Francisco, even in the off-season.  Although it shows 101 in the number boards, it appears to be carrying only the connecting coaches and sleeper off UP#9, the City of St. Louis. So where are the Chicago cars, the RPO, the dome, etc.? Perhaps UP #9 was late into Ogden, so SP ran the on-time Chicago connection as 1-101 and the late St. Louis connection as train 101. Or perhaps perhaps there were extra Chicago coaches or sleepers that day placing the City of San Francisco over the 24-car consist limit and forcing the SP to split the train into 2 sections.

Thank you photobob for your photographs!

RL Cabin
 

101 ran in two sections so the second section just shows "101". It is a overflow off of the first section, thus the small train

I think RL, and WAF, have nailed it.
Here's another situation, from Oct, '62.  I was just about home from a marathon trip (last trip on SP company pass, sad day indeed) SF-Boston and return.  In Ogden, occupying the SF through coach on UP 9, passengers were offered the opportunity to change to the COSF, oin the station at the same time, for a much earlier arrival in SF.  I opted to remain in my car and ride 27, which had the dome lounge listed as equipment.  For some reason I failed to step down to observe all the switching moves, which fascinated me....or I would have noticed the dome lounge being placed in the consist of 101, not my 27.  
This led to a very unexpected treat, though it did not seem so at the time, of riding in a modernized heavyweight lounge, the substitute for the dome.  The last time I rode in one of those old beauties.
Earlier, on then UP 9, as we approached Denver, I went for breakfast......in one of the 10(?) UP dome dining cars.....that, and lunch, were my only meals in one of these great cars.  And, I was lucky, how lucky?  Dome diners were never assigned to 9/10, I have no idea why that one was there that day, but those two unexpected cars have taken some of the sadness of the event (loss of pass priviliges)  away.  That day, I had no idea of my luck, regards that dome diner and HW lounge.
Sorry for the redundancy, I've discussed this before.

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA