Nostalgia & History > Ye old Flying Switch? Eastern Idaho RR 3-4-1995

Caught this switch move and then chashed departure in Buhl, Idaho 1995, the engines are ex-WP and ex Conrail.
Buhl was the end of the line, so they had to move the grain car in position so they could drop it off in Filer,Idaho on the way back to Twin Falls. Those were the the days when my ex wife cut me loose for a while to go out and have some real fun!

No, your eyes aren't going bad, it's another blurry and Non HD conversion of VHS to Digital from yours truly!
Sorry if it loOKs blurry, but those clouds sure we're spectacular that day!

Jim Baker
Riverside, CA



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/20 13:46 by RailRat.

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We used to do flying switches all the time.  Even when there was a runaround...sometimes it was easier to just drop the cars by the engine.

Now its too dangerous,  in the land of lawyerdom and wusses.

pdt Wrote:
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> We used to do flying switches all the time.  Even
> when there was a runaround...sometimes it was
> easier to just drop the cars by the engine.
>
> Now its too dangerous,  in the land of lawyerdom
> and wusses.

I thought I heard that was outside the law of operations,shortly after I filmed this, Jeez, just trying to do the job means breaking the law.

Just like an old Round House Foreman told me in Pocatello Idaho back in 1992...."Don't get caught working, you might get Fired!"

Jim Baker
Riverside, CA

The regs on flying switches was different with every different  rr rulebook.   I knew crews were still dropping and kicking cars into the mid 2000's.

Did the FRA outlaw it or something.  Otherwise, I would expect that shortlines would still be kicking cars, at least....

        Looks more like they stopped, pulled the cut lever and pulled ahead to let gravity and a 'slight' downgrade take care of it. Not what most would call a real flying switch.

Flying switches probably ended because at a minimum you would need two persons on the ground. One to ride the cars and one to throw the switch. Wouldn't work so well with engineer/conductor only crews. There are other problems with the process if not done correctly, cars stopping in the wrong place so the engine couldn't get out back out, cars getting away from the crew, and more. As far as I can remember, FRA did not "outlaw" this type of move. As they say "been there, done that". The move in the video was a move called "dropping the car by". Gravity movement, this was also disallowed by some of the railroads.

CR

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
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>         Looks more like they stopped, pulled
> the cut lever and pulled ahead to let gravity and
> a 'slight' downgrade take care of it. Not what
> most would call a real flying switch.

Agree.  I remember watching a Frisco yard crew trying to make a flying switch just after an SW-7 had arrived, replacing the 0-6-0's that had been there for decades.  Performing the maneuver required rapid acceleration after making the cut and the diesel sure didn't perform like the steamers did!  Took them 5-6 tries (and some language I hadn't heard) before they finally made it.

Gordon

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:

>         Looks more like they stopped, pulled
> the cut lever and pulled ahead to let gravity and
> a 'slight' downgrade take care of it. Not what
> most would call a real flying switch.

A "flying switch" is also known as a "drop," and it comes in a number of forms.  What's seen in the video is what I've heard described as a "gravity drop," a facing-point move where the power and cars come to a stop on single track facing a switch, the brakes are set on the car, the pin is pulled, the power moves ahead past the switch, the switch is thrown, the handbrake on the car is released, and gravity starts it moving into the parallel track.  Someone riding the car ties down the handbrake and stops the car once it's clear of the fouling point.  Even in recent times, some railroads allowed this type of move in specific situations.  I recall seeing some BNSF documentation allowing a gravity drop for the local that served Leyden, WA where there was no other way to get the power around the cars.  Nearby, the Lake Whatcom Railway used to (and may still?) gravity drop its two passenger cars, with passengers aboard, into a spur at the far end of the run so the locomotive could get around to the other end and return to Wickersham. 

I've heard of two other kinds of drops which would better qualify for the moniker "flying switch," in that they involve the locomotives getting the cars rolling and generally entail higher speeds, tighter timing, and greater risk.  A regular drop is a facing-point move that would look like the video except that the locomotives get the car rolling, the pin is pulled on the fly, the locomotives speed ahead past the switch, the switch is thrown, and if all goes well, the car rolls into the parallel track.  A "Dutch drop" is a trailing point move, where the locomotives and cars start out beside the parallel track, the locomotives get the cars rolling, the pin is pulled on the fly, the locomotives speed ahead past the switch, the switch is thrown, the locomotives reverse direction and speed back into the parallel track, the switch is thrown again, and if all goes well, the cars roll past the switch, and the locomotives can tie onto the other end. 

By the way, quite a horn on that ex-Reading GP30.  Online photos of EIRR 2274 suggest that at that point in its career, the unit only had two horn bells, one in each notch in the cab roof and pointing in opposite directions.  They look to both be Leslie S-25's, so the flutter in the sound may not be fouling but just the "beat" that happens when two nearly identical frequencies are blown simultaneously.

A few comments on drops, gravity drops, and Dutch drops.

FRA does not prohibit them, but if local rules prohibit then FRA insists on enforcement.

A drop across a grade crossing, as shown here, is a BAD idea. If an auto showed up after the pin pulled and switch thrown, the engine may have to stop, and a cornered car and locomotive would be the inevitable result. There'd be some serious 'splaining to do about that bent metal.

A drop should not be made UNLESS there is an alternate escape plan for getting the engine out of the pocket if the car fails to roll into the clear.

A drop should not be made into a stub track unless you are certain you have enough runoff to safely stop without using the bumping post.

If these guidelines are followed it's a safe and beautiful move to watch and to execute. If not followed......

Been there, done that countless times. Only scrapped one caboose.

-LD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/20 13:09 by LarryDoyle.

Come out to Canby, OR most every Friday morning and you can watch The Oregon Pacific crew make a drop with five to seven cars. Poetry in motion!

Dick Samuels

Brought back some great memories. Except I hated having to stop loaded grain hoppers. Heavy mo-fos and the grain dust perpetually leaking from the bottom chutes would get all over the wheels and shoes adding to the excitement when you were riding the brake. Almost lost a pair of them to the dirt pile at the end of the west tail track in B Yard in San Bernardino many moons ago.

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>         Looks more like they stopped, pulled
> the cut lever and pulled ahead to let gravity and
> a 'slight' downgrade take care of it. Not what
> most would call a real flying switch.

Thanks, added a ? to thread title.

Jim Baker
Riverside, CA

UPRR rulebooked themselves to death for the last 15 years or so. Drops used to be done daily in many places, I used to drop cuts by myself in certain places. Then we couldn’t. Then certain nitwit officials wouldn’t even let you roll em by with gravity, even if that was almost the only way to make the move. Lots of OT and tow-in now, and nobody gives a damn.

Posted from iPhone

Did lots of trailing point drops way back when.   We would back the train up about a half mile from the switch to start, so there was time to, get the engine into the siding.
The track was level...no gravity help ...so we had to get the cars rolling at a brisk walking speed, before cutting the engine and rushing ahead.