Nostalgia & History > Southern Railway "River" series sleeper question

The Southern Railway "River" sleepers for the Southern Crescent were built in 1949 by Pullman Standard. Several of them survive today. Does anyone know if they were fully stainless steel, or just stainless over carbon steel construction?

Amtrak inherited a few of them and used them on the Crescent and Florida trains. They were built by Pullman Standard and thus not all stainless.

To my knowledge, these were the first cars that had the so-called "stainless over stainless" construction.  The carbody superstructure was mostly Cor-Ten steel, but the side sheets were all stainless.  The fluting was applied over the stainless side sheets so any water leaking behind the fluting would not rust out the side sheets as it would if the side sheets were Cor-Ten like previous PS cars.  This was a big advantage over previous PS cars with stainless fluting.

Note, however, that some of the particpiating RR's in that 46 car order (L&N, PRR, CNOTP, FEC, WofA, and A&WP) did not want to spend the extra money for the stainless side sheets.  The PRR portion of the order, for example, did not have the stainless side sheets under the fluting.

The first PS car that was buit with a stainless superstructure was built in 1954.  The first ACF cars built with a stainless steel superstructure were built in 1955.

That's very interesting information.  Thank you.

Were the" Valley" series 14 Roomette, 4 Double Bedroom cars built the same way?

Jimbo Wrote:
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> That's very interesting information.  Thank you.
>
> Were the" Valley" series 14 Roomette, 4 Double
> Bedroom cars built the same way?

Yes, they were part of the same Lot number, and also had the stainless side sheets.  The reason the Valley cars were retired early is that they just had too many roomettes. 

Technically the River cars were built for the Crescent Ltd. The Southern Crescent didn't exist before 1970, and it took a different route. 

If I'm not mistaken, the 1949 equipment for the Crescent included the four Crescent cars, the eight Royal cars, and eleven diners.

Topfuel Wrote:
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>
> The first PS car that was buit with a stainless
> superstructure was built in 1954.  The first ACF
> cars built with a stainless steel superstructure
> were built in 1955.

This evolution in Pullman Standard’s manufacturing was cited in a recent article in the New Haven Railroad Historical Society’s Shoreliner magazine.  I had always wondered why the NH’s huge order of postwar P-S cars had painted window bands, while the mid-fifties 6-4-6 and 6DB-lounge sleepers did not.  Turns out the late ‘40s cars had Cor-Ten steel siding between the stainless sheathing, while the later sleeper were all stainless, eliminating the need for paint.

Dave

 

DavidP Wrote:
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> This evolution in Pullman Standard’s
> manufacturing was cited in a recent article in the
> New Haven Railroad Historical Society’s
> Shoreliner magazine.  I had always wondered why
> the NH’s huge order of postwar P-S cars had
> painted window bands, while the mid-fifties 6-4-6
> and 6DB-lounge sleepers did not.  Turns out the
> late ‘40s cars had Cor-Ten steel siding between
> the stainless sheathing, while the later sleeper
> were all stainless, eliminating the need for
> paint.
>
> Dave

Many fluted cars built by PS and ACF had unpainted stainless steel pier panels, even though behind the fluting was flat Cor-Ten steel which may have eventually become quite rusted.  Another variation was cars from the same Lot that had unpainted stainless steel roofs, and others from that Lot built for a RR such as ACL who had black roofs, would specify Cor-Ten roofs instead of stainless, since the roof was going to be painted anyway.  This would save some money on each car, but may have not been better for the long term.

ctillnc Wrote:
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> Technically the River cars were built for the
> Crescent Ltd. The Southern Crescent didn't exist
> before 1970, and it took a different route. 

The cars were built for The Crescent. The train named the Crescent Limited last ran in mid-1934.

> If I'm not mistaken, the 1949 equipment for the
> Crescent included the four Crescent cars, the
> eight Royal cars, and eleven diners.

The New Royal Palm shared the Royal cars and the diners.

You're right, it was the Piedmont that kept the Limited tag. I'm slipping.