Nostalgia & History > Ed Graham: First diesel on the SP commutes?

The late Ed Graham wrote 7/54 on the mount of this slide along with a note indicating this was the first diesel to infiltrate the steam stronghold of Southern Pacific's commuter train service between San Francisco and San Jose, CA.  Anyone have information to confirm or debunk that claim?  The 5318 was a year-old SD7 and Train 173 was a Sunday-only westbound due to stop at Menlo Park at 3:29 p.m.  Photo courttesy the Western Railway Museum Archives.

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Just when you think you've seen everything of SP diesels, we have a black widow with orange numbers and lettering.  The first SD7s were in tiger stripes but I'd guess the 5318 was delivered in black widow,  so I wonder what the deal was.  What a great photo.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/20 02:32 by masterphots.

I can’t offer anything as to whether this was the first diesel on the SP commutes, but I agree with masterphots. Just when you think you’ve seen everything with SP diesels, along comes a color photo of an orange lettered black widow! 
 It also looks like a bucolic era to have lived in Menlo Park. I’d imagine the area looks considerably different now. Thanks for sharing the image with us.

Ryan Barber
Stockton, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/20 06:00 by TS735.

Love those cars and depot 

Wayne Crabb
San Gabriel, CA

Old color photos tell us a lot we wouldn't otherwise know.

Great Evan!

Find more.

Regards, Jim Evans

All of SP's SD7's apparently came with tiger stripes, silver ends, and orange lettering:

http://espee.railfan.net/spsd07.html
SP 5285: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3796896
SP 5316: http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/sd07_photos/5316_sp-sd07-rob_sarberenyi.jpg
SP 5331: http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/sd07_photos/5331a_sp-sd7-fred_a_stindt.jpg

Given that the factory paint on 5318 was only a year old, perhaps SP just repainted the bare minimum needed to cover the stripes and make it a black widow, leaving the rest alone?

Ed Graham = a real gentleman; I would very much believe his note.    continue to RIP Ed.    Arlen

I agree with asheldrake:  Ed was a first-class railfan and gentleman.

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All of SP's SD7's apparently came with tiger
> stripes, silver ends, and orange lettering:
>
> http://espee.railfan.net/spsd07.html
> SP 5285:
> https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11
> ,3796896
> SP 5316:
> http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/sd07_photos/5316
> _sp-sd07-rob_sarberenyi.jpg
> SP 5331:
> http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/sd07_photos/5331
> a_sp-sd7-fred_a_stindt.jpg
>
> Given that the factory paint on 5318 was only a
> year old, perhaps SP just repainted the bare
> minimum needed to cover the stripes and make it a
> black widow, leaving the rest alone?

I bet that's exactly what happened, next time around they probably did the whole thing lol. Either way I like it!

TS735 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I’d imagine the area looks considerably different now. 

Like this perhaps?
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4549462,-122.183058,3a,75y,70.81h,93.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFNBu2OixAGcP1GgHPyXpMA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Really NICE and interesting shot. First time to see that color scheme.

Larry

That is a pretty rare photo. The story is that SD-7 #5325 was the first diesel tested on the commute runs on September 28, 1953. But due to the slow performance, the SP instead tried the Fairbanks-Morse Train Masters, with F-M demo units TM-3 and TM-4 being used in the Fall of 1953/early 1954. They worked out so well, that the F-M units were used on the commutes (as we all know).

Dave 

kilroydiver Wrote:

> SP instead tried the Fairbanks-Morse Train Masters, with F-M demo
> units TM-3 and TM-4 being used in the Fall of
> 1953/early 1954. They worked out so well, that the
> F-M units were used on the commutes (as we all
> know).

The fleet of H24-66's SP acquired were first assigned to freight duties on the Rio Grande Division in New Mexico, but had cooling issues and assorted other woes.  When SP first transplanted some to the west coast and tried them out on the commutes, contemporary accounts from the Pacific Coast Chapter R&LHS "Chapter News" and notes from photographer E.K. Muller at the Western Railway Museum Archives don't paint a rosy picture of their performance there, either.  The back page of the May 1955 issue of "Chapter News" has an item entitled "Commute Service Hard on S.P. Diesels" that reads as follows:

"Despite the free suggestion from the PUC that S.P. might save money by using diesels on commute runs, the S.P. is having a hard time finding diesels that can cut the buck.  The original three, 5318, 5329 and 5331, just couldn't make the time.  They were replaced by the 5602 and Trainmasters (sic) 4811 and 4812.  The two Trainmasters have had nothing but trouble resulting in more train delays than any time in recent years.  The S.P. finally threw in the towel and sent them back to the Rio Grande Division.  New arrivals 5600 and 5601 are now trying to fill the bill." 

The 5600's are of course EMD GP9's that, along with the FM's, would eventually displace steam on the commutes.  Muller's notes are undated, but references to gallery cars suggest they are from late 1955 or 1956.  He wrote:

"The first two F-M "Trainmasters" (sic) were in and out of the shops all the time - they seemed to be jinxed. A second set is now arriving. Even with all that available horsepower, the acceleration on off-peak trains does not seem impressive. The first two, #4811 and 4812, were used on peak trains for a while only. The Geeps were the first ones to cut the mustard, as is typical of GPs all over. They monopolize the off-peak trains and the "Del Monte" (anywhere from 5 to 10 cars), and it occasionally works out so they take a peak train. They do have nice pick-up. However, two of them M.U. on the heaviest train - gallery cars - which used to have a GS-4."

The April 1956 issue of "Chapter News" also makes reference to that "second set" of Train Masters arriving on the peninsula, and how they didn't appear to be trusted on the commutes just yet:

"Southern Pacific diesels 4800 and 4801 are now on the Peninsula with their main duty being to haul the Lark and Daylight between San Jose and San Francisco.  The three-unit road diesel from Los Angeles is turned at San Jose."

The December 1956 issue relates that the FM's are now arriving in force, but remains skeptical:

"Five "Trainmaster" (sic) diesels have moved into the commute service sending five steamers to the ever increasing storage line at Bayshore.  Steamers 4405, 4415, 4451, 4342, 4353, and 4360 went into the dead line.  This will be the third attempt of the "Trainmasters" in commute service.  Break downs were frequent in the other two trys (sic)."

Granted, these were railfans writing about the loathsome, soulless "growlers" that were replacing their beloved steam, but there is likely at least some truth to their accounts.  Hard to know at this point if it was just a matter of the crews and shops getting used to running and maintaining Fairbanks Morse opposed-piston power.  In any case, the big FM's did stay and eventually gave a good account of themselves, serving for just short of two decades.  The back page of the February 1957 issue of "Chapter News" told the tale of the end/beginning as follows:

"What we all knew was going to happen sooner or later happened on Jan. 22 when Commute Train No. 146 left San Francisco with steam engine 4430 on the head end.  One and a half hours later at San Jose when 4430 headed for the roundhouse, steam on the S.P. had come to a halt....taking over on the commute service are ten Trainmasters (sic), five "A" and "B" freight units, six geeps, two EMD road diesels and two Alco units."

The last paragraph is interesting.  Are there any photos of commutes behind F unit, Alcos or such?   I have a Stan Kistler slide of a Daylight E7 on a commute at Bayshore but the others mentioned I've never seen photos of.

masterphots Wrote:

> The last paragraph is interesting.  Are there any
> photos of commutes behind F unit, Alcos or
> such?  

I don't know what they were using in 1957, but a decade later, FP7 6462 could be found on the commutes, see:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1246769
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4120815
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4001809

A couple curiosities...

Was 5318 equipped with a steam generator?  Can't tell.  

Train 173 with a baggage car?  Mail along the Peninsula?

It appears as though the coach windows were operable.  Looks like passengers are leaning out the windows.  I assume SP decided to close the Sub windows permanently at some point.  

sphogger

sphogger Wrote:

> Was 5318 equipped with a steam generator?  Can't tell.  

Yes, SP 5308 and 5316-5335 came with steam generators in the short hood.