Nostalgia & History > Aikman cantilever, by request

Earlier today on the Western forum I posted a “cantilever-less” shot of a westbound train near where the former AT&SF/BNSF west siding switch at Aikman, KS was located. There was some interest in what the old cantilever signal there looked like. I would have lost a bet that I had posted at least 2 vintage Santa Fe Middle Division 4th District slides with that cantilever in them. I just can’t fine any record of my doing so. So in a hurried pinch, here is a crappy HP scan of the cantilever in question. And it will just have to do until I can get a better scan in the books...

1. Looking (ETT) west out of the cab of AT&SF 3017 on train 305 W-1, just leaving the siding at Aikman, KS. The engine consist of 3017, B&O 3684* and 6399 is getting 63 loads, 4 empties and 5017 tons rolling after meeting an eastbound train. I’m in the lead unit with engineer B. R. “Bob” Stiner and our conductor is E. A. “Elmer” Peters, who are both now passed on. Unfortunately I didn’t keep track of my fellow braking partners in those days...
Photo date: March 23, 1981.

Thanks for asking!
Lance Garrels
santafe199

*The number ‘3684’ might have a recording error in my time book. I don’t recall Santa Fe allowing any leased engine numbers to conflict with any of their current roster(s)...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/23 03:47 by santafe199.

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Lance,

Dumb question........
What signal gives your train clearance (Occupancy)beyond the Cantilever signal showing RED?

--Jim Baker

James R.(Jim) Baker
Whittier, CA

Ahhh!,  I see it now after blowing up the view.
--Jim Baker

James R.(Jim) Baker
Whittier, CA

Looks like a short signal showing green just in front of the base of the cantilever with - is that the signal that indicates the block is clear for the train in the siding?

Posted from iPhone

czephyr17 Wrote: > ... short signal showing green ... the signal that indicates the block is clear for the train in the siding ...

Correct! And if you look at highway 177 as it curves away to the right, it sort of disappears for a bit behind the signal mast. Where it disappears is pretty close to the spot I shot the image in the Western forum thread, complete with the curving fence line: No more cantilever at Aikman! (trainorders.com)    :^)

Lance/199



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/21 18:14 by santafe199.

I'm curious about the configuration of this signal. It has two aspects: the target signal on the cantilever and the other on the ground on the little do dad. Together the two aspects in the photo are red over green or diverging clear. Why not put both aspects on the cantilever? Too high and dangerous for the signal maintainer? 

WichitaJct Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm curious about the configuration of this
> signal. It has two aspects: the target signal on
> the cantilever and the other on the ground on the
> little do dad. Together the two aspects in the
> photo are red over green or diverging clear. Why
> not put both aspects on the cantilever? Too high
> and dangerous for the signal maintainer? 

They are two separate signals, the short one for leaving the siding, like the train in the photo, and the one on the cantilever for the main track. He's leaving the sinding on a green.

 

The high signal on the left is the main track signal, the short one we called the "pot" was at the west end of the siding, and in this case is showing green to leave the siding. The siding at Aikman was long enough to hold two trains back in the day, so besides a signal at each end, it had an intermediate number plate stop & go signal in the middle, signaled in both directions.

Posted from Android

WichitaJct Wrote: > ... It has two aspects:
Yes it does... FOR TWO SEPARATE TRACKS

> ... Together the two aspects in the photo are red over green or diverging clear ...
That makes NO sense whatsoever. Do you mean to tell me in the near half-century you have been shooting trains you've never seen a cantilever signal lean over & govern a main track while a short/stub/pot/dwarf signal governs the siding it's closest to??? Seriously? Wow...........

Thanks Lance!  I could see the cantilever's shadow in old aerial photos, but was coming up empty-handed for ground-level photos.

Some railroads like SP employed "doll arms" or "dummy masts," little blue or purple signal heads (or even just an empty stub mast) on a short arm added to the right side of a signal mast, to indicate that the primary signal on the mast applied not to the track immediately to the signal's left but to the next track over. 

https://railroadsignals.us/signals/dolls/index.htm
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,4699806
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3508427,3508786#msg-3508786

Santa Fe didn't use those as far as I know, instead employing cantilevers to physically reach over a track the signal didn't govern to place the signal head to the right of the track it did govern.  The cantilever in the photo above is the equivalent of a mast-mounted signal situated between the main track and the siding, governing westbound movements on the main.  The dwarf at its base governs movements out of the siding.

NYC303 Wrote: > ...  They are two separate signals ...........................................

Not to worry! I've know this guy since '77 and I'm totally convinced he's just pulling our leg(s). He's been fanning waaaaay too long to be serious with that line of questioning...

;^) 

Nice shot, Lance!

RC Lundgren

As general  informational trivia regarding signal placement, I find it helpful or at least interesting to remember that the cantilevers on the Santa Fe were set up in steam days, with the overhead signals positioned somewhat to the right side of the track they govern to allow full view to an engineer looking down the long barrel of a steam engine boiler, which I believe is one reason why Santa Fe was such a big user of cantilevers.  In the diesel era many (most) control points now have left hand signals when mounted on a ground mast, which was rare or unheard of in steam days.

Andy