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Nostalgia & History > B&O Railroad "Cincinnatian" Coaches


Date: 09/22/22 08:18
B&O Railroad "Cincinnatian" Coaches
Author: ClubCar

When Railroad Passenger Cars, known by their reporting marks RRP, began, the B&O Railroad had just retired the remaining former "Cincinnatian" coaches that were still in service up until when Amtrak began on May 1, 1971.  RRP was able to buy several of these cars to be used in excursion service in the future.  Shown above is former "Cincinnatian" coach RRP 3504, nee B&O 3568 "Walnut Hills" a 60 seat coach.  RRP wound up leasing all of their former B&O coaches back to the railroad for the Maryland DOT Commuter Trains beginning in 1973.  Some of these "Cincinnatian" cars continued in commuter train service until 1982.  Unfortunately, RRP sold all of these cars to various individuals and a couple to a scrap dealer by 1982.  Today it is unknown if any of them survive.  Photos from the RRP files.
John in White Marsh, Maryland






Date: 09/22/22 09:15
Re: B&O Railroad "Cincinnatian" Coaches
Author: dan

thanks for the look at these



Date: 09/22/22 10:09
Re: B&O Railroad "Cincinnatian" Coaches
Author: bandob

Interesting history of the Cincinnatian coaches. I wonder what happened to the two Diner-lounge-observation cars?

B&OBill
 



Date: 09/22/22 12:04
Re: B&O Railroad "Cincinnatian" Coaches
Author: Cumberland

Great history lesson and photojournalism!

My main interest in the Cincinnatian is that it utilized the Patterson Creek Cutoff, to bypass Cumberland. I am fascinated by it because it includes B&O's, former, mile-long Knobley Tunnel, which has little documentation. 

Matthew



Date: 09/22/22 12:13
Re: B&O Railroad "Cincinnatian" Coaches
Author: WM_1109

Cumberland Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great history lesson and photojournalism!
>
> My main interest in the Cincinnatian is that it
> utilized the Patterson Creek Cutoff, to bypass
> Cumberland. I am fascinated by it because it
> includes B&O's, former, mile-long Knobley Tunnel,
> which has little documentation. 
>
> Matthew

Matthew, I'll take your word regarding the Cincinnatian routing. But Knobley Tunnel is on the WM, just east of Maryland Jct.
/Ted



Date: 09/22/22 12:26
Re: B&O Railroad "Cincinnatian" Coaches
Author: ClubCar

bandob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting history of the Cincinnatian coaches. I
> wonder what happened to the two
> Diner-lounge-observation cars?
>
> B&OBill
>  
I was told that both of them were retired and sold for scrap, but I have no actual information about these two cars, just what I remember hearing from folks on the railroad.  When the last "Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment" #36 dated March 1971 was printed by the Railway Equipment and Publication Co. of New York, neither of the two diner/lounge observation cars from the "Cincinnatian" trains are listed.  However, all of the coaches were still on the roster as of that time period.  Here is the list of the "Cincinnatian" coaches that were still in service: 3566 Indian Hill; 3566 Winton Place; 3567 College Hill; and 3568 Walnut Hill, all 4 cars were 60 seat coaches.  Then there were 3572 Oakley and 3573 Norwood, both 56 seat coaches with small Stewart's room in each, and finally there were 3574 Avondale and 3575, both 52 seat coaches with large ladies lounges.
RRP purchased these coaches, 3565, 3566,, 3567, 3568, 3574 and 3575.  Because RRP discovered a serious mechanical problem with coach 3565 Indian Hills, they learned from the B&O that a private individual had also bid on two of the "Cincinnatian" coaches that he wanted to be used in stationary service only as part of a hobby shop store that he was building up in New Oxford, Pennsylvania.  Since neither of these two cars would be running any more, RRP contacted this individual and an agreement was made to trade the 3565 for 3572 "Oakley."  So this individual obtained two cars, the 3565 Indian Hill and the 3573 Norwood.  This is all the information that I have in my records for the former B&O "Cincinnatian" passenger cars.  One final note:  I stated that to the best of my knowledge none of these cars still exist, I stand to be corrected.  RRP sold the 3574 (RRP 3509) to Mr. Ross Rowland which his company converted to a crew car for the operation of the Chessie Steam Safety Express in 1980.  I'm guessing that the car is still in existence with Mr. Rowland's other cars.
 
John a/k/a Clubcar in White Marsh, Maryland



Date: 09/22/22 13:24
Re: B&O Railroad "Cincinnatian" Coaches
Author: boejoe

John et al.
  I understood that the two cars used as the hobby shop in New Oxford PA (across the the WM station) were cut up on site a few years ago.  
jb



Date: 09/22/22 14:11
Re: B&O Railroad "Cincinnatian" Coaches
Author: WM_1109

WM_1109 Wrote:
>
> Matthew, I'll take your word regarding the
> Cincinnatian routing. But Knobley Tunnel is on the
> WM, just east of Maryland Jct.
> /Ted

Matthew,
My apologies. The only tunnel on B&O's Patterson Creek Cutoff was also called "Knobley Tunnel".  At 4160 ft, it was significantly longer than WM's Knobley Tunnel.
/Ted



Date: 09/22/22 15:04
Re: B&O Railroad "Cincinnatian" Coaches
Author: ClubCar

boejoe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> John et al.
>   I understood that the two cars used as the
> hobby shop in New Oxford PA (across the the WM
> station) were cut up on site a few years ago.  
> jb
This is correct as they were no longer railroad worthy since almost everything mechanically on these cars had been stripped off and sold to the group RRP for their fleet of cars back in the 70's.  These two cars were basically just shells sitting on wheels.
John in White Marsh, Maryland



Date: 09/22/22 15:21
Re: B&O Railroad "Cincinnatian" Coaches
Author: Cumberland

WM_1109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WM_1109 Wrote:
> >
> > Matthew, I'll take your word regarding the
> > Cincinnatian routing. But Knobley Tunnel is on
> the
> > WM, just east of Maryland Jct.
> > /Ted
>
> Matthew,
> My apologies. The only tunnel on B&O's Patterson
> Creek Cutoff was also called "Knobley Tunnel". 
> At 4160 ft, it was significantly longer than WM's
> Knobley Tunnel.
> /Ted

That's why I'm so interested in it! 

The WM's Knobley Tunnel is well-known and well documented. It even has a rail's-to-trails trail going through it now! It's understandable that one will jump to the conclusion.

The B&O also has former RoW going through Knobley Mountain, farther south of Cumberland. I have attached an image of the eastern-portal, or what would be the eastern portal, if it wasn't for the foliage. I am looking straight at it from about 200 feet away.

Matthew

Matthew




Date: 09/22/22 16:58
Re: B&O Railroad "Cincinnatian" Coaches
Author: bigsavage

The B&O tunnel was 4,160 ft , bricklined and double track, built in 1904.
The WM tunnel was 1,448 ft., concrete, single track, also built about the same time (1903-06)
About 6 miles apart.
Photos from wikimapia.org, also listed on Bridgehunters.com.
East portal of the B&O tunnel about 10 years ago








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