Nostalgia & History > FM Friday

.FM road switcher H15-44 1509 on the turntable at the Communipaw Engine Terminal, Jersey City, NJ.  From a duplicate slide, date and photographer unknown.

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Almost clean! Built in 1949. I suspect this picture is from the mid-50's as there is still a double-ended Baldwin in the background.

TJY

A Baby Trainmaster and a Baby-Face Baldwin.  1509 is a sharp-looking FM, even in the dip scheme.

Matthew

I don't want to be a grouch, but a "Baby Trainmaster" is a Fairbanks-Morse H16-66 (six-axle).

TJY

Oh, just be grouchy, I won't tell.  CNJ had 13 real Train Masters, but no other FM six-wheel trucked versions.  They had several of these B-B truck units used in all types of service.  One double-ended Baldwin (2004) lingered at the Communipaw house into the 60's as a stationary boiler.  Can't read the number on the one pictured, so I'm still not sure on the date.

Great F-M shot !!

CNJ had:

1500 - 1513  H-15-44  1500hp  - 4 axle road switcher
1514 - 1517 H-16-44  1600hp  - 4 axle road switcher
2401 - 2413  H-24-66 2400hp six axle Train Master
9700 - 9704, 9706, 9708, 9709   H-10-44 switchers leased from B&O
18 -19 H-16-44 leased from B&O  (ex B&O 6700 - 6701)

Interesting spark arrestors.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/22 14:36 by train1275.

icancmp193 wrote: " . . . but a "Baby Trainmaster" is a Fairbanks-Morse H16-66 . . . "

I don't want to be juvenile, but IT IS NOT!!!  :^) 

My assertion is made in jest.  Before I wrote my post this afternoon, I did some research online concerning the "Baby Trainmaster" nomenclature.  I first saw "Baby Trainmaster" associated with H16-44's, and in the publications I acquired that featured both Milwaukee's and C&NW's H16-66's, those units were called "Junior Trainmasters".  During my short time on TO, however, I have seen H16-66's referred to as Baby Trainmasters, so the purpose of today's research was to gain a sense of which application of "Baby Trainmaster" was more common.  Indeed, I found more instances of H16-66's being called "Baby Trainmasters" rather than "Junior Trainmasters."  This evening I undertook a cursory perusal of TO posts featuring H16-66's, and I found that my practice of referring to four- and six-axle H16's has been the minority position going back to the start of this great forum, and the existence of differing positions goes back fifty-something years in total.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,114205,114219#msg-114219

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,5388900,5389474#msg-5389474

Matthew

Roadmaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> icancmp193 wrote: " . . . but a "Baby Trainmaster"
> is a Fairbanks-Morse H16-66 . . . "
>
> I don't want to be juvenile, but IT IS NOT!!! 
> :^) 
>
> My assertion is made in jest.  Before I wrote my
> post this afternoon, I did some research online
> concerning the "Baby Trainmaster" nomenclature. 
> I first saw "Baby Trainmaster" associated with
> H16-44's, and in the publications I acquired that
> featured both Milwaukee's and C&NW's H16-66's,
> those units were called "Junior Trainmasters". 
> During my short time on TO, however, I have seen
> H16-66's referred to as Baby Trainmasters, so the
> purpose of today's research was to gain a sense of
> which application of "Baby Trainmaster" was more
> common.  Indeed, I found more instances of
> H16-66's being called "Baby Trainmasters" rather
> than "Junior Trainmasters."  This evening I
> undertook a cursory perusal of TO posts featuring
> H16-66's, and I found that my practice of
> referring to four- and six-axle H16's has been the
> minority position going back to the start of this
> great forum, and the existence of differing
> positions goes back fifty-something years in
> total.
>
> https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,
> 114205,114219#msg-114219
>
> https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11
> ,5388900,5389474#msg-5389474
>
> Matthew

Road - Thanks for your research. In addition, the H15-44 (like #1509 shown) pre-dated the Train Master by 4 years. So how can it be a "Baby" if it's parent didn't exist? :-)
TJY

icancmp193 Wrote: "So how can it be a "Baby" if it's parent didn't exist?"

Since you have posed this logical question, I have undertaken a bit more online research.

It had crossed my mind whether "Baby Trainmaster" would be applied to the H15-44/H16-44 with the Loewy-styled carbodies, and not just to the "Phase III" H16-44's built from 1955 through 1963 with the body style similar to that of the H24-66.  Bachmann, which has made a H16-44 in HO scale for years, makes only the "Phase III" H16-44, and calls their models Baby Trainmasters.  Atlas, however, has made HO scale models of H15-44's and H16-44's with the Loewy-styled carbodies and they do not mention "Baby Trainmaster" in their description of the model (see https://archive.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/arc-hoh151644.htm).  Rapido has announced "Phase III" H16-44's; I found no mention of "Baby Trainmaster" on the page announcing their model. 

Also worth consideration, by the way, is whether the first 25 CNW H16-66's, which had the Loewy-carbody, were called Baby Trainmasters, since they preceded production of the H24-66, which started in April 1953.

On The Diesel Shop website there is a page on "Baby Trainmasters"; it is dedicated to the H16-66's added to the catalog in August 1953; these have the carbodies similar to the H24-66.  On this page the following is stated regarding the Loewy-styled H16-66's, introduced in 1950:  "It should be noted that FM's longer, massive and more powerful "Train Master" was still on the drawing board, thus it would be a misnomer to refer to the phase one H16-66s as "Baby Train Masters."

The American Rails website also has a page on "Baby Trainmasters"; however, all H16-66's are called Baby Trainmasters: "The Baby Train Master, cataloged by Fairbanks-Morse as its H16-66, was the first of its six-axle, road-switcher locomotives released in the early 1950s. . . . The Baby Train Master began production in January of 1951; the first orders taken from the Chicago & North Western, a regular buyer of Fairbanks-Morse products."

I did not find anything substantial other than that; I hoped to find discussion about the application of "Baby Trainmaster" to the different phases of the H16-44, but I missed it if it's out there. 

Sources:

https://thedieselshop.us/FM_TM_Baby.HTML
https://www.american-rails.com/h16-66.html

Matthew

P. S.  One book that has a section of CNW's H16-66's is Robert Olmsted's Prairie Rails - The Chicago and North Western Railway.  This section even shows H16-66's from CNW's 2nd order of 26 units running with Milwaukee Road's eight H16-66's; all these units have the body similar to the H24-66 and were built after the H24-66 was introduced.  Mr. Olmsted first refers to them as Baby Trainmasters, but then in succeeding pages also calls them Junior Trainmasters.  However, he did not have Loewy-carbody styled H16-66's in his book, so I do not know if he considered those earlier H16-66's as Baby Trainmasters or Junior Traimasters or neither.