Nostalgia & History > Santa Fe 199361 41 years ago!

It was a time when our 1980’s KS Gang was intact and trading slides with each other regularly. I remember getting this original Kodachrome slide from Mark Simonson like it was just a few weeks ago (try 41 years)! Sheesh, you blink your eyes and lose a few decades...

1. Pausing for a crew change at Emporia, KS AT&SF rotary snow plow 199361 is being hauled west to plow off some unknown section of track. Note the marker hanging on the plow blades.
Photo taken February 9, 1982 by Mark Simonson.

Thanks for looking back!
Lance Garrels
santafe199
Remembering my late KS Gang bro Mark Simonson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/23 00:05 by santafe199.

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Nice!  Another Simonson photo of this event is on page 43 of Wheat Lines and Super Freights.  The caption says "...rotary plow 199361 trails the caboose of a special taking the machine west to stand by for a storm raging in New Mexico."  Not sure it was actually put into action on that occasion.  I sure don't recall seeing photos or even hearing of the plow working in New Mexico in 1982...or ever.  It did work in Arizona on at least one occasion in the 1960's and was stored in the Albuquerque, NM roundhouse for a while in the 1970's, but if it ever turned a blade there, the pictures have yet to come to light.

Wonderful - Superior historic image.
Bob

Interesting, and very nice photo. Wonder where the diesel power unit is, that would provide the electrical power for the rotary.

HotWater Wrote: > ...Wonder where the diesel power unit is, that would provide the electrical power for the rotary ...

It's probably one of the GP20s in the consist. Back in January 1979 Santa Fe used the 199361 to plow off the Baldwin branch north of Ottawa, KS. That train also had a pair of GP20s for power. This link will (sorta) show the connection between eng 3171 and the plow during the day: ( Dreaming of the Caribbean! (trainorders.com) ). 

Evan_Werkema Wrote: > ... page 43 of Wheat Lines and Super Freights ...

Thanks Evan! I had forgotten about Mark's photo in Joe McMillan's WL & SF book. He & I provided a number pf photos each, and even shared that deep sunset photo at Ridgeton. There's a story behind that: When I submitted my slide I had a strong hunch Joe would use it. I knew that Mark's identical slide had been lost. (We both got that shot standing side by side). So I told Joe to give us joint photo-credit for it...

And to Jack's question above: I caught the 199361 coming back from NM 4 days after Mark shot it at the depot in Emporia. It was merely coupled on behind the waycar of a regular manifest train. So it didn't need a power source while in transit...

Lance

That is a very nice shot, Lance!  Thanks for posting it. You all are making me look again at Joe's great book!

texchief

Very NICE looking ATSF snow plow and company.

Larry

Outstanding photo and super scan,

Rich

Thanks Rich! I think I over-sharpened the image just a hair. But as they say, "live & learn" can be a constant process... 

Lance

santafe199 Wrote:
 like it was just a few weeks
> ago (try 41 years)! Sheesh, you blink your eyes
> and lose a few decades...

No truer words were ever spoken! Where does the time go?? Great photo, by the way! Thanks for sharing
 

HotWater Wrote:

> Wonder where the diesel power unit is, that would provide the electrical power for the rotary.

Santa Fe never had a dedicated power unit (a.k.a. "snail") for the 199361 the way SP and BN did for their rotaries.  During an online discussion of the Santa Fe rotary some years ago, a fellow asserted that the company diagram for jumpering a locomotive to power the rotary showed a GP20 as the power unit.  I've never seen the diagram, but it does seem to be the case that just about every photo I've come across of 199361 plowing snow shows a GP20 coupled immediately behind.  I don't think the plow has been used since BNSF retired the last of the Santa Fe GP20's in 1999.

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
>
> > Wonder where the diesel power unit is, that
> would provide the electrical power for the
> rotary.
>
> Santa Fe never had a dedicated power unit (a.k.a.
> "snail") for the 199361 the way SP and BN did for
> their rotaries.  During an online discussion of
> the Santa Fe rotary some years ago, a fellow
> asserted that the company diagram for jumpering a
> locomotive to power the rotary showed a GP20 as
> the power unit.  I've never seen the diagram, but
> it does seem to be the case that just about every
> photo I've come across of 199361 plowing snow
> shows a GP20 coupled immediately behind.  I don't
> think the plow has been used since BNSF retired
> the last of the Santa Fe GP20's in 1999.

Interesting information. I wonder what the heavy DC power cable configuration was, in order to have one of those GP20 units provide power to the rotary. In the one photo in the snow, there does not appear to be any cabling between the rotary and the GP20. 

HotWater Wrote:

> Interesting information. I wonder what the heavy
> DC power cable configuration was, in order to have
> one of those GP20 units provide power to the
> rotary. In the one photo in the snow, there does
> not appear to be any cabling between the rotary
> and the GP20. 

In operation, the GP20 would be coupled directly behind the rotary, without the caboose in between.  If you have a friend who owns a copy of McMillan's High Green to Marceline, there are photos on pages 114-117 showing the rotary in use on the Pekin Branch in Illinois.  The one on the top of page 114 shows a cable draped over the handrails and around behind the cab on the engineer's side of GP20 3025, coupled behind the rotary.  Page 75 of McMillan's Wheat Lines and Super Freights has an even better photo of the other side of the rotary coupled to unrebuilt GP20 3153, with a stout bundle of cables running up through the cab side window.  Not the most formal arrangement, to be sure, but it was presumably designed so that any unmodified GP20 could do the job. 

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
>
> > Interesting information. I wonder what the
> heavy
> > DC power cable configuration was, in order to
> have
> > one of those GP20 units provide power to the
> > rotary. In the one photo in the snow, there
> does
> > not appear to be any cabling between the rotary
> > and the GP20. 
>
> In operation, the GP20 would be coupled directly
> behind the rotary, without the caboose in
> between.  If you have a friend who owns a copy of
> McMillan's High Green to Marceline, there are
> photos on pages 114-117 showing the rotary in use
> on the Pekin Branch in Illinois.  The one on the
> top of page 114 shows a cable draped over the
> handrails and around behind the cab on the
> engineer's side of GP20 3025, coupled behind the
> rotary.  Page 75 of McMillan's Wheat Lines and
> Super Freights has an even better photo of the
> other side of the rotary coupled to unrebuilt GP20
> 3153, with a stout bundle of cables running up
> through the cab side window.  Not the most formal
> arrangement, to be sure, but it was presumably
> designed so that any unmodified GP20 could do the
> job. 

Thanks. That explains more about how they ran the DC cabling from the GP20 electrical cabinet forward to the rotary. Thus, that particular GP20 would then have no electrical power to its own traction motors.

SP did not originally have power cars either - they had cables that stretched to the pusher, usually an F7A or B.  The dedicated engines did not come into play until the 70's. All of the plows carried
the cables inside on hangers. This was the case for the other railroads as well. There's a great shot of the CB&Q plow with the cables fed through the nose headlight.

BN converted a slew of GP28's for rotary plower in the 90s.
 

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
>
> > Wonder where the diesel power unit is, that
> would provide the electrical power for the
> rotary.
>
> Santa Fe never had a dedicated power unit (a.k.a.
> "snail") for the 199361 the way SP and BN did for
> their rotaries.  During an online discussion of
> the Santa Fe rotary some years ago, a fellow
> asserted that the company diagram for jumpering a
> locomotive to power the rotary showed a GP20 as
> the power unit.  I've never seen the diagram, but
> it does seem to be the case that just about every
> photo I've come across of 199361 plowing snow
> shows a GP20 coupled immediately behind.  I don't
> think the plow has been used since BNSF retired
> the last of the Santa Fe GP20's in 1999.