Nostalgia & History > Tower Tuesday: 'Griffith' for a location

Interlocking towers were once a very common sight. But today almost all we have left are the photographs. This particular shot needs some actual RR operator ID, not to mention some location help. If it is Griffith, what state is it in? TIA for any help

1. MKT Griffith Tower at Ft Scott, KS* probably in the 1950s(?).
Copy slide formerly from the late Tony Fey collection, photographer is unknown.

Thanks for the help!
Lance Garrels
santafe199

*Got some very able location help, thank you very much...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/25 06:09 by santafe199.

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It's defiantly, not the one in Indiana. Maybe it's a Santa Fe or Southern Pacific tower? Lower quadrant train order signal may be a clue. If the name is on the iside of the tower, would it not be in Texas, as all Texas towers had numbers? Or did they have both?

Victor Baird

What looks like a home signal facing the other direction, makes one think the slide is backwards./



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/25 10:47 by wabash2800.

While I can't help with location, I am almost poitive the image is reversed based on the home signal in the distance; signal is on the wrong side of the tracks. Flipping the image makes those appear as upper quadrant signals.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/25 11:16 by Railbaron.

Railbaron Wrote: > ... I am almost poitive the image is reversed based on the home signal in the distance ...

I have no reason to argue. You never quite know what you get with a no-info trader slide out of the collection of a deceased friend. I'll see how this plays out during the day...

Lance

A litttle detective work and it is Griffith Tower, Fort Scott, Kansas, and the image you posted is indeed reversed. Here is a shot for sale on eBay, almost identical photo.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/325859875808
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/25 12:14 by Railbaron.

Flipped the image.  Now you can sort of read "Griffith" on the side of the tower.  But I still have no idea where it is...

mike woodruff
north platte ne

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Thanks for the flip. It does make the scene look better...

Lance

This tower was on the west side of Fort Scott, Kansas, west of the Marmaton River.  Coordinates for this crossing are 37.84224, -94.72228.    The photographer is standing alongside the Missouri Pacific Wichita Subdivision, which in the 1950's and the first half of the 1960's ran from Fort Scott to Wichita.  The photographer is looking west-northwestward, with Fort Scott behind him.  The line crossing at the tower is the MKT main between Parsons, KS and St. Louis; its designation was changed from the Sedalia Subdivision to the Eastern Subdivision in 1958.  Parsons is to the photographer's left.  This crossing was abandoned in either 1965 or 1966, when Missouri Pacific withdrew from Fort Scott completely.  The Griffith name seems to have appeared only on MKT timetables, first appearing in 1943 and continuing until the end in 1988.

Here are more details:

In 1871 the Missouri, Kansas and Texas Railway completed a line running southwest from Sedalia, MO through Fort Scott to Parsons, KS where it joined its mainline building south from Junction City, KS towards Texas.  In 1880 the St. Louis, Fort Scott, Wichita and Western was chartered to build a line between Fort Scott and Wichita; the line was completed 3 years later, under the control of Missouri Pacific through its similarly-named St. Louis, Fort Scott and Wichita Railway subsidiary.  

In Missouri, Kansas & Texas Railway employee timetable #20 for the St. Louis, Hannibal, Sedalia and Kansas City Divisions effective February 13, 1898, the crossing of the two lines is listed between Fort Scott and Ronald (see page 6 of MK&T ETT #20 effective 2/12/1898).  Later, the listing would include a milepost, MP 339.1 (see page 5 of M-K-T St. Louis District ETT #10 effective 11/04/1928).  In 1932, the crossing was given a name: Esmond (see page 3 of M-K-T Northern District ETT #15 effective 10/30/1932).  Eleven years later, "Griffith" appeared on the timetable instead of Esmond (see page 4 /.pdf page 5 of M-K-T Eastern District ETT #20 effective 04/04/1943).  The last Katy employee timetable to show the Missouri Pacific crossing at Griffith was Northern Division ETT #7 effective September 12, 1965 (see page 5 of M-K-T Northern Division ETT #7 effective 09/12/1965).  By this time, the tower may have been gone, as the crossing was made an automatic interlocking by July 1958 (see page 9 of M-K-T Northern Division ETT #1 effective 07/20/1958).  When the next employee timetable was issued in 1968, the Griffith name remained on the timetable, but mention of the MP crossing was gone (see page 3/.pdf page 3 of M-K-T Northern Division ETT #1 effective 09/29/1968).  Griffith remained on Katy's employee timetables until the last was issued in 1988 (see page 3/.pdf page 5 of M-K-T & OK&T System ETT #7 effective 05/15/1988).

Missouri Pacific Wichita Division employee timetable #52 effective Feburary 2, 1941, shows the Wichita Subdivision crossing the Katy at MP 327.18 (see page 2/.pdf page 4 of MP Wichita Division ETT #52 effective 02/02/1941).  The last MP ETT with the crossing was Central District #4 effective May 2, 1965 (see page 11/.pdf page 7 of MP Central District ETT #4 effective 05/02/1965).  The following year, the Wichita Subdivision no longer reached Fort Scott, as it had been pared back westward to Bronson (see page 25/.pdf page 14 of MP Western District ETT #1 effective 11/27/1966), roughly 22.7 miles from Fort Scott.  Central Division ETT #4 of 1965 was also the last MP timetable to feature any other MP trackage in Fort Scott. The Rich Hill Subdivision, which ran through Fort Scott from Rich Hill Junction near Nevada, MO to the east and went south to Cornell Junction near Pittsburg, KS, was deleted from Western Division ETT #1 of 1966. Rich Hill Junction was located on the Pleasant Hill Subdivision, part of the MP mainline running through southwest Missouri into northern Arkansas. Cornell Junction was located along the Pittsburg Subdivision. At one time there was also a Missouri Pacific route north out of Fort Scott: the Topeka Subdivision extended from Fort Scott north to Topeka, part of what was built as the Kansas, Nebraska and Dakota Railroad in the 1880's (the line east to Rich Hill Junction was also built by KN&D).  In 1934, the Topeka District was abandoned between Lomax and Fort Scott.  This 1929 employee timetable shows the Topeka District running between Topeka and Fort Scott (see page 15/.pdf page 16 of MP Central Kansas Division ETT #31 effective 09/29/1929).

Here are two more pages dealing with the Topeka District and the KN&D:

https://www.abandonedrails.com/kansas-nebraska-and-dakota-railroad
https://mopac.org/forums/topic/line-from-topeka-ks-to-lomax-ks/

Another webpage with the photo of Griffith Tower found on EBay by Railbaron:

https://www.kansasmemory.gov/item/449277

Matthew



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/25 04:57 by Roadmaster.

Thanks. Amazing work! I’m downtown watching the Royals right now. I’ll check in tomorrow AM and make the necessary updates… 😎

Posted from iPhone

Following up: I have made the amendments, and I have flipped my original image post. Also, I will go with MKT as the operating road. Thanks guys!

Lance

Thank you for posting the maps, rantoul.  I think I can see where the turntable had been on a 1957 aerial on the Historic Aerials site, but it appears the area had been redeveloped by that time.  MP Wichita Division ETT #53 effective 09/21/1941 shows a turntable at Fort Scott, but Wichita Division ETT #66 effective 05/23/1954 does not show a turntable at Fort Scott.  Looking at Joplin and White River Division ETT's from the 1940's and 1950's, the last of those available on the WX4 site showing a turntable at Fort Scott is ETT #47 effective October 31, 1948 - see the Rich Hill Subdivision and the Cornell Subdivision on page 9/.pdf page 11 MP Joplin and White River Division ETT #47 effective 10/31/1948.  The presence of a turntable is no longer marked at Fort Scott on page 10/.pdf page 14 of  Joplin and White River Division ETT #50 effective 11/02/1952.  Back then, the Rich Hill Subdivision encompassed only the line running east of out Fort Scott to Rich Hill Junction and the line running south to Cornell Junction was the Cornell Subdivision.  It appears that the Joplin and White River Division was folded into the Eastern Division in 1959 and the Cornell Subdivsion was merged into the Rich Hill Subdivision in August 1960.

MP Eastern Division ETT #1 effective 06/14/1959

MP Eastern Division ETT #3 effective 08/06/1960

Matthew