Canadian Railroads > Latest on Churchill line

CTV national news did an update on the dispute over the Churchill line last night ....

http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1173244

Basically, Omnitrax refuses to do anything .... Ottawa says they can't abandon ... and the folks in Churchill are getting screwed over ....

Personally, I think that if Omnitrax will not do anything, it should revert to CN (with NO compensation to the yanks) and get the line fixed!

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON

The solution is very simple. The Federal government needs to hire someone to go in and restore service on the line and then send the bill to Omnitrax.

What does the contract between Omnitrax and CN provide? Has the export of grain thru Churchill stopped? Does Omnitrax own the line or is it leased from CN? Seems there are many questions to be answered here>

Norm

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar

The earlier CBC report said an engineering analysis and environmental overview would be conducted before repairs would begin.

Has this happened?

Posted from Android

Am I correct in thinking that no grain has been shipped from Churchill since the summer of 2016?

Environmental overview? The right of way already exists. More over government regulations.

aronco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What does the contract between Omnitrax and CN
> provide? Has the export of grain thru Churchill
> stopped? Does Omnitrax own the line or is it
> leased from CN? Seems there are many questions to
> be answered here>

OmniTrax owns the line (625 miles) and the Port of Churchill. It has closed the port and grain exports have stopped.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The earlier CBC report said an engineering
> analysis and environmental overview would be
> conducted before repairs would begin.
>
> Has this happened?
>
> Posted from Android


Don't believe everything you hear on the mother corp! (CBC) ... Often wrong ... leftist slant etc ...

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON

>
> OmniTrax owns the line (625 miles) and the Port of
> Churchill. It has closed the port and grain
> exports have stopped.

The Port of Churchill was closed because grain exports had stopped, not the other way around. Grain exports stopped because Stephen Harper's federal Conservatives abolished the Canadian Wheat Board when they were in power. The Wheat Board shipped grain through Churchill as a matter of public policy. With the Wheat Board gone no private grain companies were interested in the extra cost of shipping through Churchill.

KG

Stephen Harper did not abolish the Canadian Wheat Board. The SOB sold it to the Saudi Royal Family. Canadian taxpayers were screwed. It now operates as G3. I believe it was G3 that decided to no longer use the Port Of Churchill.



kgmontreal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > OmniTrax owns the line (625 miles) and the Port
> of
> > Churchill. It has closed the port and grain
> > exports have stopped.
>
> The Port of Churchill was closed because grain
> exports had stopped, not the other way around.
> Grain exports stopped because Stephen Harper's
> federal Conservatives abolished the Canadian Wheat
> Board when they were in power. The Wheat Board
> shipped grain through Churchill as a matter of
> public policy. With the Wheat Board gone no
> private grain companies were interested in the
> extra cost of shipping through Churchill.
>
> KG

Since OmniTrax is not interested in re-opening or operating the line, I really question the dollar-amount figures that have been mentioned in the cost of re-opening the line.

I think they're hyper-inflated.

A couple of motorcyclists from Colorado rode along the line and, while they were not exactly experts in railroad track maintenance, they reported that the damage they saw was not all the severe. The water had already receded off the ROW when they made their trip weeks ago.

It's hard to get accurate information from a company that has to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into operating a railroad.

Like I mentioned in another post, OmniTrax has about as much interest in operating the Churchill line as SP had in operating the Lark.

CA_Sou_MA_Agent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A couple of motorcyclists from Colorado rode along
> the line and, while they were not exactly experts
> in railroad track maintenance, they reported that
> the damage they saw was not all the severe. The
> water had already receded off the ROW when they
> made their trip weeks ago.

Yup…..a couple of motorcyclists from Colorado. Probably real experts in building on permafrost and tundra in Canada’s north!. Did you ever look at photos of the line to Churchill and wonder why the old telegraph poles were tri-pods and built-up with cribwork and rocks?

http://www.borealbirds.org/sites/default/files/publications/map-carbon-permafrost.png

Usually.....construction in those areas is done in the winter

If you look at the map link above showing the extent of permafrost you will see that it extends to near Tuktoyaktuk in the far northwest where the new highway from Inuvik has just been completed with the work done during the winter.....

“The majority of the work, aside from some smoothing of the top layer, has to be done in the winter to preserve the integrity of the tundra and its permafrost. A geotextile fabric is laid on the proposed building site before it is topped with at least a metre of gravel.

“That will insulate the permafrost from melting in the summertime,” Gruben said. “If you put the gravel down in the summertime it’ll disturb the surface layer of the tundra. You can’t operate out there in the summertime; the tundra covering the permafrost is just too fragile.”[i/]

https://norj.ca/2014/11/inuvik-to-tuk-highway-building-a-road-to-prosperity/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/17 04:02 by ghCBNS.

Thanks for the info.

The CBC report I mentioned up thread said that any impact to the permafrost by construction equipment etc would require a significant review. (I'm GUESSING that placing the equipment alongside the track would be a violation of whatever integrity the permafrost requires. Easy enough to push everything off until winter.)

http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2017/07/19/canadian-town-stranded-by-weather-and-an-american-owned-railway/

Some other press on the situation from a few days ago.

Seems like a road is the best option. It's the option Nova Scotia apparently selected: trading in its well-functioning RDC system for highway improvements. Presumably the federal government has plenty of road resources available. Similar results: Vancouver Island and Newfoundland.

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seems like a road is the best option. It's the
> option Nova Scotia apparently selected: trading in
> its well-functioning RDC system for highway
> improvements. Presumably the federal government
> has plenty of road resources available. Similar
> results: Vancouver Island and Newfoundland.


You are talking apples and rutabagas ....
The Churchill line is built on muskeg/permafrost. The others you mention are built on firm ground.
Omnitrax should either repair the line ... or turn it over, free of charge, to the First Nations who wanted to take it over.
Omnitrax is acting like most other American companies who come into Canada and think they can do whatever they want and then walk away with all the money.
Some Canadians are sick of that attitude.

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON

This is an interesting, and obviously sensitive topic. As someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight, I'd like to ask a few honest questions:
How much freight traffic did Omnitrax generate at Churchill before the line closed? And how much grain traffic existed and was subsequently lost due to the elimination of the wheat board? What % of the business on the line did this constitute? It sounds to me like this was likely far and away the largest source of revenue...yes?

The answers to these questions would lead me to ask further: If Omnitrax actually owns the railroad, and by far the largest source of revenue for the Churchill line was grain, and the Canadian government undertook activity that resulted in the loss of that grain traffic, what would Omnitrax's motivation be to reopen a line where they aren't likely generating enough revenue to justify that expense?

I'm not saying there aren't good public policy reasons for reopening the line, there obviously are...but if public policy and not commercial freight revenue is the primary reason for reopening the line, should not the Canadian or provincial government step in and fund the repairs and subsidize the operation to Churchill? My point is that Omnitrax, like any business (American or Canadian), is in this to make $$$. From the cheap seats here, it seems like making $$$ on a line with very high maintenance costs due to flooding and the melting permafrost (conditions that it would seem are only going to get worse and not better) and a significantly diminishing revenue base is a lose-lose proposition for any business.

*Edit* just found this posted on the HBRY/Omnitrax website...lots of interesting information I have not yet seen here: http://omnitrax.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/OmniTRAX-Technical-Briefing.pdf



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/17 15:28 by PittsburghMike.

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seems like a road is the best option. It's the
> option Nova Scotia apparently selected: trading in
> its well-functioning RDC system for highway

There is no comparison between NS and the line to Churchill! We already had an extensive highway network here so what we received when passenger service was cut back was some additional highway twining + a new toll freeway that parallels a CN line that still has VIA service.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/17 15:11 by ghCBNS.

thehighwayman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Seems like a road is the best option. It's the
> > option Nova Scotia apparently selected: trading
> in
> > its well-functioning RDC system for highway
> > improvements. Presumably the federal
> government
> > has plenty of road resources available.
> Similar
> > results: Vancouver Island and Newfoundland.
>
>
> You are talking apples and rutabagas ....
> The Churchill line is built on muskeg/permafrost.
> The others you mention are built on firm ground.
> Omnitrax should either repair the line ... or turn
> it over, free of charge, to the First Nations who
> wanted to take it over.
> Omnitrax is acting like most other American
> companies who come into Canada and think they can
> do whatever they want and then walk away with all
> the money.
> Some Canadians are sick of that attitude.


First Nations! LOL!

Also, has anyone posted this yet? found on the HBRY/Omnitrax website:

http://omnitrax.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/OmniTRAX-Technical-Briefing.pdf

Interesting stuff...