Canadian Railroads > Canadian tardiness

Seems in recent days trains 1/2 have regularly been 10/12 late after some earlier improvement. Anything happen,fires out west, CN derailment, etc? Or just usual CN arrogance?

Posted from Android

If my trip was any indication, it was all CN dispatching. We departed Toronto on time. Ran early to Sioux Lookout. Arrived Winnipeg about 2 hours late. Were ready to depart OT but held for 2.5 hours for CN freights also heading west! Other than Winnipeg, there wasn't one long delay. Just multiple freight meets. We ended up about 8 hours late in Vancouver which was good compared to what's going on now. On the plus side, the ride from Kamloops to Vancouver was great with segments of the canyon I'd not seen before. But some passengers with ferry and flight connections planned for late afternoon weren't happy. While there was some haze from the fires, none are close enough to affect traffic.

Have a great trip. Hope your wife enjoys it. Say hi to bartender Haley for me if she's in the back. I told her you were coming but didn't know the dates. Also to Bernadette in the diner. She might not know my name but the "picky American" should do the trick.

I don't see why anyone would want to patronize this service.

It's time for a boycott.

But the problems are mostly all with CN. Not VIA. Apparently, VIA has no recourse as is the case with Amtrak where there are on time incentives etc. And CN is a private company who doesn't exactly treat Amtrak well either. Until VIA Rail can negotiate a better deal with CN, they and their passengers, who pay top dollar to ride this fine train are screwed. And adding more time to the schedule won't help. They added 12 hours to the schedule a few years back and they are still 12 hours late. And don't think everyone on the train is just out for a nice joy ride. The three coaches on my train last July were packed, with most going to intermediate stops. And tourists in the sleepers have a reasonable expectation to arrive somewhat on schedule. Even dinner plans in Vancouver based on a morning arrival aren't reasonable to expect. But most who booked have no idea. They might read the notice on the web site. But think that means perhaps a few hours late, not half a day. I spoke to several who used a travel agent to book and they were never made aware that significant delays happen on a regular basis, not just when something unusual goes wrong. Shame on CN. That said, if you have the time and expect delays, the train is still a great experience. But gets a little old after sitting in siding after siding waiting for endless freights to go by. It seemed we spent more time sitting than moving.

out of curiosity, what does via pay the c.n. to operate on their railroad? is it a premium fee?

66

goneon66 Wrote:
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> out of curiosity, what does via pay the c.n. to
> operate on their railroad? is it a premium fee?

No, it is not. VIA pays about $6 million per year (roughly $25,000 per train) for track access for the Canadian. That total is roughly the same amount that Vancouver's West Coast Express commuter service pays for access to 42 miles of CP's track for a seven-hour operating window on 250 service days per year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/17 15:46 by railsmith.

reindeerflame Wrote:
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> I don't see why anyone would want to patronize
> this service.
>
> It's time for a boycott.


Judging by your remarks, it seems likely you have never partaken of this fine service, schedule compliance aside. I don't think you have any basis for comments, other than the chronic lateness.

I have partaken, and feel this is the best regularly "scheduled" train on the North American continent, and perhaps, on the planet.

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

agentatascadero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't see why anyone would want to patronize
> > this service.
> >
> > It's time for a boycott.
>
>
> Judging by your remarks, it seems likely you
> have never partaken of this fine service, schedule
> compliance aside. I don't think you have any
> basis for comments, other than the chronic
> lateness.
>
> I have partaken, and feel this is the best
> regularly "scheduled" train on the North American
> continent, and perhaps, on the planet.
>
> AA
We took it last year in August, Prestige class from Vancouver to Toronto-- superb experience, worth every penny. Yes, we were delayed many times waiting for monster 200+ car wb freights, and yes, we were 1 1/2 hours late into Toronto, and yes, the recent dispatching and delay issues are horrific--/ so just build in an extra day into your schedule to compensate for these eventualities. Those of us who are fortunatevto be retired and can affordnthis train can do so. Reinderflame is a Sacto bureaucrat and his views fit that category. He is entitled. :-)
C

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA

Of the four "Canadians" at this moment, one is actually on time. The other three are between 10 and 13 hours late. The last two departures of #1 from Toronto were at 03:41 and 09:06 of the day after the scheduled departure of 22:00. There have been some westbound departures from Jasper that have been near midnight and at least one was after midnight. This is a significant inconvenience to embarking passengers who must leave their hotel accommodations by noon or even earlier, expecting the train to arrive from the east at 13:00. Eastbound departures from Winnipeg are usually in the middle of the night. On only one of my last five Vancouver-Toronto trips did the Canadian arrive in Winnipeg before midnight so I could see the renovations to the station.

Indeed, the Canadian is a splendid train and highly recommended. But I will no longer consider an intermediate trip - only the full length of the run. It is sad, although understandable, that many passengers make plans for the morning arrivals expected in Toronto and Vancouver. But most experienced travellers do not book tight connections by any mode of transportation.

The days are long past when you can fly with confidence to a port for the same-day embarkation of a ship - even a short flight from Toronto to New York. Although I have had some flights that were on time it is too stressful. One time when we flew the day before an ocean crossing our plane from Toronto to New York was diverted to Montreal (and later back to Toronto) because of fog. We set out the next day and arrived in New York 14 hours later than expected. I have read that some people take the Canadian to Vancouver expecting to board their ship the same day. I did that over 40 years ago and had no concerns, although it was re-assuring that both the train and the ship were Canadian Pacific operations.

VIA's last annual report shows a marked improvement in the operating loss for the Canadian. This is obvious on account of higher fares (especially Prestige), nearly full loads in peak season and the reduction in the number of sales. On checking the last-minute availability of sleeper space I noticed that many runs were sold out and those runs that had "cabins" available rarely had more than one single, one double and one Prestige. I fear this good news may not last as word spreads about serious late running.

I traveled end to end on the Canadian in 1996 and Edmonton-Vancouver in 2006.

But I would not recommend the service today.

Instead, I will be on the Lusitania soon.

Posted from iPhone

agentatascadero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't see why anyone would want to patronize
> > this service.
> >
> > It's time for a boycott.
>
>
> Judging by your remarks, it seems likely you
> have never partaken of this fine service, schedule
> compliance aside. I don't think you have any
> basis for comments, other than the chronic
> lateness.
>
> I have partaken, and feel this is the best
> regularly "scheduled" train on the North American
> continent, and perhaps, on the planet.
>
> AA

Freedom of Speech is great until someone says something someone doesn't want to hear and someone's feelings are hurt...

I rode the Canadian several times in the same trip back in 2008, back when the train still had some utility and the shorter schedule was somewhat adhered to. It was a good trip, for the most part. I rode using a North American Rail Pass and paid the extra for a lower berth, then an upper berth, then for a roomette for three parts and paid less for the pass and accommodations then the guy who was in a berth next to me who was riding from Toronto to Vancouver. I was quite shocked and upset by how the dining crew treated a couple who came in from the coaches to have breakfast, they certainly were not made to feel welcome. Now the Canadian is more of a money grab for VIA Rail. It is know throughout the World so VIA should always have new passengers wanting to try the Canadian rail experience so I doubt it will go away any time soon. That being said though, I doubt I will ever include the Canadian in another trip. Air travel in Canada has become far too convenient and costs less than VIA Rail and Greyhound between city pairs. I do plan to ride the Churchill train and the Skeena at some point though. If you have not rode the Canadian though it is worth a one off trip. I too agree with Drawingroom A that alighting and boarding at intermediate points like I did in 2008 is now questionable due to the schedule problems. The Canadian is basically an extended stay tourist train now.

Jim

I agree with those saying the Canadian is the best regularly scheduled passenger train in North America in spite of the CN! And wife and I will board soon and deboard in WPG at what ever the hour is! Wife has been warned arrival at WPG may be any hour!

Posted from Android

reindeerflame Wrote:
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> I traveled end to end on the Canadian in 1996 and
> Edmonton-Vancouver in 2006.
>
> But I would not recommend the service today.
>
> Instead, I will be on the Lusitania soon.
>
> Posted from iPhone


flame, I see apologies are in order for my charge that you had never ridden VIA 1/2, and therefor "knew nothing".....please accept mine, I was wrong.

The Lusitania....you'd rather go down with the ship than ride the Canadian? That one got a laugh out of this old crabapple.

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

Maybe with their new-found wealth from the Prestige Class, VIA could negotiate higher expectation of on time performance with paying higher track charges.

As long as this train increasingly becomes expensive, novelty, tourist attraction over any means of serious transportation, expect no interest from the Ottawa government. Even at that, the train can't even be relied upon even to make a cruise ship in Vancouver with 12 hours to spare. There's also no excuse why VIA can't put travel advisories on their website.

Sadly, it makes me wonder the relevance of Via, outside of Quebec City to Windsor. I was fourtunate that my father had a CN pass so we took Via quite often to visit friends and family. Ask most Canadians under the age of 40 who don't live in remote areas, or outside of the Corridor when their last train ride was, and you'll likely get a never as a response. Via had a plan in the 90s to use the sleeping car "cruise" type passengers to subsidize the transport function of the train. It worked for a while, as the HEP equipment was very reliable. With the delays, as well as twice a week frequency, it's very hard to include Via in ones travel plans.

I remember the last few years before VIA and CN worked on schedule adjustments in 2010. The train was chronically late, and VIA was concerned about its tourist ridership boarding and de-boarding at Jasper, Edmonton, and Winnipeg. Midnight departure or arrival at Jasper was hitting passengers/tourists HARD and the hotels were even getting upset with VIA. This was not making for a positive tourist experience. VIA - and perhaps only VIA - negotiated for a schedule change, and a longer schedule with padding, so as to at least hit its major stops at passenger friendly hours. And of course they needed to be in line with equipment turns. But the schedule that emerged has been met with worse lateness than what VIA had prior to 2010. And I think the the schedule prior to 2010 was timed to have better scenery across the Canadian Shield. The resulting schedule largely remained the same between Edmonton and Vancouver. Bottom line - the schedule change in 2010 did NOTHING to resolve ontime performance of the Canadian. I wish they would go back to the old schedule.

The Canadian used to be scheduled to arrive into Toronto at 8 pm and then go back out the next day at 9 am or so. There was a 12 hour service window. Today, the train roughly has a 14 hour service window. Not much has been gained, other than delaying the train at Toronto till the train is serviced and ready to go. Might as well wait during the day than stay up all night waiting for it to arrive at the station. Cheaper for VIA too - they likely wouldn't have to pay for hotel rooms at the Royal York as much. It still used four trainsets, but technically, I think they could use just three IF the train came into Vancouver ontime. Old schedule would have the train arrive by 8 am and then it had to go back out at 5:30 pm . That was a "short" turn for VIA for the Canadian (although VIA could turn the overnight train to Gaspe in literally two hours if it wanted to!!!), but when they put a fourth train set in rotation, it didn't have to do a same day turn. They could turn certain sleepers though if more were needed (particularly between Jasper and Vancouver)! I was a fan of the pre-2010 schedule.....I also never experienced its chronic lateness in the ~2007 to 2009 years. The fourth train set was assembled after the Renaissance cars took over for the Budd equipment on the Ocean's route......

VIA will definitely see recent profits erode if word gets around too loudly about its lateness that has set in really bad.

jp1822 Wrote:
...
> VIA will definitely see recent profits erode if
> word gets around too loudly about its lateness
> that has set in really bad.


I know what is meant by the above, but the Canadian is far from profitable. The losses have been reduced significantly in the past three years. The following is quoted from the Annual Reports:
2014 - Revenue $47,145,000 Loss $55,463,000
2015 - Revenue $51,541,000 Loss $47,347,000
2016 - Revenue $66,240,000 Loss $40,419,000

The turnaround in Toronto, presently a minimum of six and a half to seven hours, could probably be quicker if it wasn't for the rest time required for the locomotive crew. They are now based in Capreol, not Toronto. On board crew have told me that VIA doesn't care about their rest time, knowing that most of them can sleep on the overnight portions. I doubt they get much sleep when #1 departs Toronto in the middle of the night - the same with #2 at Winnipeg.

DrawingroomA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jp1822 Wrote:
> ...
> > VIA will definitely see recent profits erode if
> > word gets around too loudly about its lateness
> > that has set in really bad.
>
>
> I know what is meant by the above, but the
> Canadian is far from profitable. The losses have
> been reduced significantly in the past three
> years. The following is quoted from the Annual
> Reports:
> 2014 - Revenue $47,145,000 Loss $55,463,000
> 2015 - Revenue $51,541,000 Loss $47,347,000
> 2016 - Revenue $66,240,000 Loss $40,419,000
>
> The turnaround in Toronto, presently a minimum of
> six and a half to seven hours, could probably be
> quicker if it wasn't for the rest time required
> for the locomotive crew. They are now based in
> Capreol, not Toronto. On board crew have told me
> that VIA doesn't care about their rest time,
> knowing that most of them can sleep on the
> overnight portions. I doubt they get much sleep
> when #1 departs Toronto in the middle of the night
> - the same with #2 at Winnipeg.

By NO means did I mean to infer that the Canadian train operated by VIA is "profitable" in the truest sense of accounting. I should have said - the Canadian will not continue to have reduced losses (as has been the trend recently) if word gets around too loudly about its lateness that has set in really bad. That doesn't really roll of the tongue too well.

Nonetheless, in 2004 I was with some VIA marketing folks out of Vancouver who were boasting that the Canadian operated at or near break even in certain weeks/month(s) in the peak summer period as a result of the added Budd sleeper cars (inherited from the Ocean since it used the Renaissance Sleepers). The marketing folks were travelling to ride the Ocean and experience the upgraded Maritime experience with Park Car. I was never able to ascertain what they were, or were not, including as expenses though!!!

VIA can turn a train pretty quickly in the scheme of things! As mentioned, I was on the train to Gaspe (and back) a couple of times. We arrived into the station at 1:15 pm and within an hour and 15 minutes (for a 2:30 pm departure), the train backed up to be wyed, had the diner cleaned and refreshed, dome car vaccummed out (some children had potato chips all over the place, including the two coach cars), two Chateau sleeper cars serviced, and the diesels fueled at the station. Yes, smaller consist, but compared to Amtrak - remarkable!!!!

What this all boils down to is that The Canadian is best ridden end-to-end, eastbound from Vancouver. An on time departure is virtually guaranteed. When will you arrive in Toronto? Who knows and WHO CARES? Just don't buy tickets for a same day connection at Toronto.

If you don't have to be concerned about on-time performance this is the best regularly scheduled train in the world.

Posted from iPhone

#1 almost 15 hours late now

NOW ALMOST A DAY LATE!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/17 08:18 by dan.