Canadian Railroads > Fred Frailey is on The Canadian

...and blogging about CN's precision railroading. You can read all about it on the Trains website.

JBWX



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/17 19:59 by jbwest.

jbwest Wrote:
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> ...and blogging about CN's precision railroading.
> You can read all about it on the Trains website if
> you are a subscriber.

Don't need to be a subscriber. Anyone can access the Trains.com blogs.

have a safe trip fred........

66

Good. Hopefully this will serve to further awareness of the horrible treatment by CN of this train. Currently No. 1 is 12 hours late out west. No. 2 is faring better "only" about 5 hours late in Ontario today.

Question. Fred reports they few in a new crew from Winnipeg due to insufficient crew rest time. So what happens to the previous crew. Do they fly them home? Next train out of Toronto isn't for days.

I don't think anything will change unless Transport Canada intervenes, and I don't see that happening. Regardless of who the PM is, Rocky Mountaineer determines passenger rail policies outside the Corridor, while Sarnia and Niagara Falls aren't even that anymore. Maybe some day 60 year old RDC's will handle locals out of Halifax.

Interesting blog. Thanks for pointing it out.

#1 delayed due to another derailment near Savona BC.

-Trevor

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey/default.aspx



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/17 12:52 by trainjunkie.

tsokolan Wrote:
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> #1 delayed due to another derailment near Savona
> BC.
>
> -Trevor

When you say "another", do you mean in addition to the one that occurred very late last Friday evening, which caused both Nos. 1 and 2 to run via CP west of Kamloops?

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think anything will change unless
> Transport Canada intervenes, and I don't see that
> happening. Regardless of who the PM is, Rocky
> Mountaineer determines passenger rail policies
> outside the Corridor . . .

That's a stretch. If Rocky had that amount of influence and control, VIA would not be offering high-end Prestige service on the Canadian, and for that matter, the Canadian would not be operating at all, and neither would Trains 5 and 6 (the former Skeena).

Rocky's founder, Peter Armstrong, has made it very clear that he considers such trains to be unfair competition because they are subsidized by the federal government, but that hasn't stopped the subsidies. Armstrong may have had some influence with the government when it was run by the Conservatives, but he has no special "in" with the Liberals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/17 13:39 by railsmith.

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Question. Fred reports they few in a new crew from
> Winnipeg due to insufficient crew rest time. So
> what happens to the previous crew. Do they fly
> them home? Next train out of Toronto isn't for
> days.

I can't say what happened this time, but on one of my trips the off-duty crew was taken home to Winnipeg on the train on which they would have been working. Similarly, I have met an extra crew being sent deadhead from Winnipeg to Toronto on the train. It helps that for the past two or three years VIA normally runs an extra sleeper as a back-up. It is often used for the crew - both on-duty and off-duty. With four Manor sleepers and a light load, there is plenty of sleeper space available.

railsmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> That's a stretch. If Rocky had that amount of
> influence and control, VIA would not be offering
> high-end Prestige service on the Canadian, and for
> that matter, the Canadian would not be operating
> at all, and neither would Trains 5 and 6 (the
> former Skeena).
>
> Rocky's founder, Peter Armstrong, has made it very
> clear that he considers such trains to be unfair
> competition because they are subsidized by the
> federal government, but that hasn't stopped the
> subsidies. Armstrong may have had some influence
> with the government when it was run by the
> Conservatives, but he has no special "in" with the
> Liberals.

They know VIA has to run something politically, so they tolerate the Canadian as it is now, but nothing more or different will be tolerated. The Canadian is legally a Remote service train, which is why it is on the CN.

Nope, not a stretch. Every time the subject comes of increasing summer frequencies to 6 days per week, or reroute on the CP west of Winnipeg, Rocky Mountaineer lobbyists head straight to Ottawa and stops that in its tracks. Been going for 30 years with both parties.

As far as VIA goes, Trudeau is Harper 2.0, as I expected. Some frequency additions on Ottawa Corridor trains, happy talk about HSR, maybe some RDC commuter operation in Halifax, and that is it. No restructuring, no expansion, no equipment, no increase in subsidies.
RMR would love to seize control of the Skeena as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/17 16:17 by joemvcnj.

railsmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tsokolan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > #1 delayed due to another derailment near
> Savona
> > BC.
> >
> > -Trevor
>
> When you say "another", do you mean in addition to
> the one that occurred very late last Friday
> evening, which caused both Nos. 1 and 2 to run via
> CP west of Kamloops?

Last derailment report I got was on the CN west of Savona, which was this past weekend, so I'd assume it is the same one you are referring to.

-Trevor

Occurrence No.: R17V0247 Occurrence Type: ACCIDENT
Occurrence Date: 2017-12-01 Accident/Incident Type: MAIN-TRACK TRAIN DERAILMENT Occurrence Time: 23:54 Subdivision Owner: CN - CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAY CO. Classification: 5 Subdivision Name: ASHCROFT
Province: BRITISH COLUMBIA Subdivision Mileage: 28.30
Nearest Town/City: SAVONA Yard Name:
DG Cars Involved: 0 Spur Name:
DG Released: 0 Spur Mileage:
Train Operator: CN - CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAY CO.
INJURIES Fatal: 0 Serious: 0 Minor: 0
Occurrence Summary:
CN train, proceeding west on the Ashcroft Sub., derailed 18 cars at approx. Mile 28. Cars, lines 17-18, 53-54, and 68, are derailed upright. Lines 55-67 are on their sides in the river bank. All cars are loaded grain (wheat). No injuries. No DG's involved.

Fred now has a second on-train post with some, uh, unusual delays.

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey/archive/2017/12/05/postcard-from-goodeve.aspx

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They know VIA has to run something politically, so
> they tolerate the Canadian as it is now, but
> nothing more or different will be tolerated. The
> Canadian is legally a Remote service train, which
> is why it is on the CN.

If nothing more or different will be tolerated by Rocky Mountaineer, how did the Prestige service get started? The conversion of the cars was carried out during the era when Armstrong's Conservative buddies were in power, using funding from the government's economic stimulus program. If Armstrong had as much clout as you imply, he could have prevailed on the Conservatives to kibosh that initiative, which competes for the same clientele as Rocky does.

The Canadian is not "legally a remote service train". VIA has a political mandate to operate via the CN route through northern Ontario, because that was the key factor in the federal cabinet's decision-making when the major cuts to VIA's budget were being considered in 1989. But that's far different from being legally required to do so.

The Rocky Mountaineer started as a Via Rail train (101 & 102) operating with "blue fleet" CC&F smooth side coaches and day-nighter cars.

When the Mulroney Conservatives announced the Via service cuts of 1990, the opportunity was there to "privatize" portions of the Government operated passenger train network. There was a fairly detailed proposal by someone other than Peter Armstrong to take over the "Canadian" but it was no more than a proposal.

Peter Armstrong and partners purchased the rolling stock and the franchise from Via to operate the "Rocky Mountaineer"

eminence_grise Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Rocky Mountaineer started as a Via Rail train
> (101 & 102) operating with "blue fleet" CC&F
> smooth side coaches and day-nighter cars.
>
> When the Mulroney Conservatives announced the Via
> service cuts of 1990, the opportunity was there to
> "privatize" portions of the Government operated
> passenger train network. There was a fairly
> detailed proposal by someone other than Peter
> Armstrong to take over the "Canadian" but it was
> no more than a proposal.
>
> Peter Armstrong and partners purchased the rolling
> stock and the franchise from Via to operate the
> "Rocky Mountaineer"

The proposal to buy out the VIA train, known as the "Canadian Rockies by Daylight", was led by the VIA manager who created it, Murray Jackson, who had been VP of marketing and sales. Jackson invited Armstrong to participate in the proposed venture, but after preliminary discussions Armstrong decided to withdraw, feeling he was being asked to put up too much money but without a seat on the board, and doubting the business acumen of Jackson and his ex-VIA sidekicks.

Jackson demanded that Armstrong sign a pledge of confidentiality about the proposal but Armstrong refused, leading to a screaming match in the dining room of a Montreal hotel where they were meeting.

Armstrong and his partners, who included some Calgary businessmen, submitted their own bid, and won.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/17 23:38 by railsmith.

< The Canadian is not "legally a remote service train". VIA has a political mandate to operate via the CN route through northern Ontario, because that was the key factor in the federal cabinet's decision-making when the major cuts to VIA's budget were being considered in 1989. But that's far different from being legally required to do so.>

There are about 8 defined remote service routes in Canada. Capreol - Winnipeg are 2 of them. The White River RDC is a 3rd one.

The ACR Local was allowed to come off because a title search by the Harper government revealed that many of the dwellings were 2nd homes.

"Prestige Class" was an upgrade for 2 or 3 cars existing cars on the train that needed refurbishing anyway. Not a big deal, like rerouting on the CP or running daily. As Prestige Class was implemented, frequencies were cut off-season from 3 to 2 days per week. Either they priced people off the service as its functions more as basic transportation than for tourists in the dead of winter, or that was part of the deal to head off RMR.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/17 09:37 by joemvcnj.