Canadian Railroads > The Canadian, why no spare set at Toronto?

As one who follows the schedule travails of VIA 1 and 2, I am curious as to why during the winter there is no spare equipment set at Toronto to facilitate on time departures of VIA 1 when VIA 2 is late. Presumably there is plenty of equipment, except perhaps for the Prestige cars. Perhaps it is a crew issue. I am not criticizing VIA just curious. I'm guessing VIA has good reasons for doing what they do.

But while on the late trains subject, assuming CN is facing long term capacity issues that are not magically going to go away when VIA''s busy season starts this spring, I wonder how VIA will handle these problems when The Canadian is running with 20 cars full of passengers, not the short winter trains with only a few people to provide hotels and such for. I could see 24 hour late trains being a real problem for tour operators, hotels, and such.

As for me, in a few weeks I will once again set out from Vancouver on VIA 2 for another great adventure across Canada. North America's last great train, even when its late.

JBWX

My understand is it's a crew issue. There should be plenty of equipment available with the 2x per week schedule. There is no Toronto based crew. So the crew coming in late on No. 2 needs crew rest time (not sure how much). On occasion, VIA has flown in a new crew from Winnipeg where most of the Canadian's crews are based. Perhaps they should have a dedicated crew base in Toronto for the train. But 2x per week wouldn't seem to justify it. Agreed, if this mess keeps up, things will only get worse with the 3x per week schedule. It's beyond me why CN tries to handle more trains than they have capacity for. While Amtrak has certainly had their share of late transcontinental trains, they have never had anything like the consistent 12 hour plus delays the Canadian suffers at the hands of the incompetent and uncaring CN.

All of the above the same questions I have. A source of mine told me crew rest became an issue when #2 got in way late and # 1 left say at 0300 hours. My source only managed two hours sleep/hotel time before returning to #1 at 0130 for a 0300 hours departure. So suspect more crew rest became the important matter meaning departures the next day. I am sympathetic to that a these people work long hard hours.

They could relocate some OBS people from Winnipeg to Toronto. All Winnipeg would have to staff is the remnants of the Hudson Bay service. I don't know whee the Skeena's OBS people are from. They may not like that though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/18 11:41 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> They could relocate some OBS people from Winnipeg
> to Toronto. All Winnipeg would have to staff is
> the remnants of the Hudson Bay service. I don't
> know whee the Skeena's OBS people are from. They
> may not like that though.

While there are Vancouver based OBS folks, I believe the Winnipeg base provides most of the western crews as well. Centralizing it at Winnipeg probably has a lot of advantages in terms of running an extra board. Interesting question, were do the Skeena OBS folks come from?

JBWX

Could cost of living be cheaper in Winnipeg then in Toronto?

It is my understanding that the Skeena OBS people are based as Jasper.

mundo Wrote:
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> Could cost of living be cheaper in Winnipeg then
> in Toronto?

Considerably. Winnipeg housing is cheap compared to other major Canadian cities.

From 2016 -- average detached home in Toronto, $1,286,605, in Winnipeg $302,727.

viatrainrider Wrote:
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> It is my understanding that the Skeena OBS people
> are based as Jasper.

How many people are in that pool?

Not known by this guy. The one SM I know has significant seniority. Probably not too many. This time of year probably only an SM and assistant on train. In summer when there are many more passengers and the green glass topped car (Viewliner?) there would be more OBS.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> They could relocate some OBS people from Winnipeg
> to Toronto. All Winnipeg would have to staff is
> the remnants of the Hudson Bay service. I don't
> know whee the Skeena's OBS people are from. They
> may not like that though.

When Brian Mulroney reduced VIA trains by 50% on the 15th of Jan. 1990, there were many changes in crew assignments. The Toronto OBS crew base for the Canadian was abolished (as was the Montreal base for the Ocean). With the western leg of the "transcontinental" service being reduced from 14 trains a week between Winnipeg and Vancouver to just three, the Winnipeg base lost a huge number of employees. The Winnipeg SMs I knew told me that in order to save as many jobs as possible, Winnipeg would be the crew base for the Canadian both to Toronto and Vancouver, except for the Vancouver-based crew that made one round-trip trip a week. It was deemed that Toronto had enough corridor positions to minimise job losses.

I mentioned this last year, but I will repeat it in the current context. A few years ago I was on the Canadian ex-Toronto and met a few corridor OBS crew who were being trained to handle service attendant jobs on the Canadian. They told me they would be used only in emergencies. I'm not aware if they have been used but there were not enough of them to staff the entire train. Since then VIA has occasionally flown some crew from Winnipeg to Toronto or sent some crew deadhead on the train.

A few years ago the engine crew base for the Toronto - Capreol portion was changed to Capreol instead of Toronto. This could be why the turnaround time in Toronto can be as long as 12 hours as it has been recently.

There are now two Prestige Château sleepers amongst the equipment scattered throughout the Toronto Maintenance Centre yard. Other than a Park car I see enough equipment to make up a spare set, but I have not seen that yet this winter, as opposed to the previous two or three years. Even when the arrival of #2 was not late, the train sets were changed except for the Park car.

The also sent a bunch of Transcon cars to Montreal to cover the Ocean on holidays.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> The also sent a bunch of Transcon cars to Montreal
> to cover the Ocean on holidays.

There was - and still is - one stainless steel set of the Ocean. Over the "holiday season" there were six sleepers on this train: two Manor and four Château. Recent photos of the stainless-steel Ocean show only the Château sleepers. Most non-Prestige Château sleepers are not used in the winter season. Of the 40 Manor sleepers in the fleet, only four or five are needed for each of the three winter consists of the Canadian.

At various times this winter I have seen at the Toronto Maintenance Centre yard between two and five Manor sleepers, six Skyline cars, two dining cars, one or two Château sleepers, two Prestige Château sleepers and rarely a Park car. There is no apparent reason why these cars could not be attached to form a train. I think the crew issue is the problem.

Perhaps next winter VIA could re-schedule the departure of #1 from Toronto for the next day; i.e. Wed. and Sunday instead of Tuesday and Saturday. Typically it leaves the next day anyway. There is plenty of extra equipment in Vancouver (from my observations in late November there was at least one full consist plus lots of other equipment) so the turn-around time being shortened by a day wouldn't be a problem. If the same consist of the arriving #1 is used for the next departure of #2, the turnaround time of an on-time arrival is currently from Wed. morning to Friday evening and from Saturday morning to Tuesday evening. The summer season when four long consists are needed is a different matter.

Crew scheduling would have to be re-written in Winnipeg and Vancouver for on-board and at many other points for the engine crews. This could be more of a problem for VIA than assembling an extra train.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/18 09:26 by DrawingroomA.