Canadian Railroads > Ride "The Canadian?" No Thanks!

I plan on posting more than one thread, about our recent ride on VIA Train No. 2, "The Canadian" departing on April 29th. Since our experience with this trip was quite negative, I realize that I am going to receive a whole hopper load of backlash from those for whom VIA can do no wrong. I realize that many here are devoted to this train and will continue riding it as much as they can, as they just love it. To them, I say that I am very happy for you and I am not trying to upset anyone, I am merely relaying OUR experience, in the hopes that others who may be planning a ride on "The Canadian" will do so with their eyes open. If I had read the words below, I never would have booked this trip. Anyway, rather than putting everything in one, very long thread, I thought I should break it up. So, here goes:

I don't consider myself a "Rail Fan." I don't chase trains, nor do I profess to know everything about them, like so many others on this site. That said, I have ridden a number of them over the years, with a trip on "The Canadian" always sitting out there on my "Bucket List," if you will. Well, a week ago tomorrow, my wife and I boarded No. 2 in Vancouver, with a Prestige Class bedroom booked to Toronto. As you might imagine, we were quite excited and truly looking forward to our great adventure.

Well, the train, scheduled to leave at 8:30pm, did not depart until almost 12:30am--4 hours late--due to the No. 1 arriving very late. OK, I've heard about the lateness, we'll roll with the punches. What I have never seen discussed here before, is WHAT HAPPENS when these trains get late. What do YOU think happens? Well, what actually happens, is that the engineers try to make up time and they do this by really opening the throttle when they have a clear right of way. Unfortunately, they do this pretty much whenever they can, seemingly with absolutely zero regards for the comfort--or safety--of the passengers and crew. Mind you, I have ridden the TGF in France and the ICE in Germany and I have no problems going very fast in a passenger train. However, when the tracks said train is riding on, are constantly beat up by gigantic, 150+ car freight trains, the resulting ride in passenger equipment can be a bit much--which is putting it mildly. Add to this mixture the idea of "making up time" by going VERY fast and the passengers feel like they are ping-pong balls being swatted from one side of the car to the other.

We spent three nights on the train and got almost zero sleep. Our sleeper was bouncing and swaying so VIOLENTLY, that my wife was just about in tears and to say I was very concerned is a gross understatement, as I was scared at times as well. One morning in the diner, as the train was going what I feel was WAY too fast, through an area where there seemed to be grade crossings every 100 yards or so, as the Chief Steward was pouring me a cup of coffee, he dumped the entire cup all over our table, barely missing my wife and I. During one dinner service, the diner was rocking and bouncing so violently, that passengers were heard screaming and shouts of shocked profanity were heard. I believe the "S" word left my lips at least once. When I complained to the waiter that we were going too fast, his exact words were: “We call them every ten minutes and tell them to slow down, but they say they need to make up time.”

With the train coming into Winnipeg more than 19 hours late, my wife and I decided that we did not wish to experience what sort of "making up time" measures the engineer might have in store for us that evening. So with heavy hearts and a VERY expensive vacation being ruined, we elected to leave the train in Winnipeg. We stayed the night in a hotel and then flew home to California the next day. We were promised a partial refund from the train "manager." Our Air Canada, one-way, Business Class tickets, which were booked for the return trip from Toronto to LAX, were expensive enough, but to be changed, ended up costing us an ADDITIONAL $800.00+, which was just the icing on the cake of this horrible trip.

Perhaps passenger cars rocking and swaying violently might seem like a walk in the park to some of you old train guys, but for us, our experience on No. 2 was NOTHING that could even remotely be described with the words "First Class" or "Prestige." We felt like we were riding in a cattle car and that making up time was more important to the crew than the safety, health and comfort of the passengers onboard. I know all the excuses about how VIA is at the mercy of CN, as they own the tracks, freights are given priority, government this and government that, so please, don't give me anymore excuses. We paid HUGE money for what was supposed to be a relaxing, comfortable, "prestigious" trip and that is NOT what we received--not even close.

To be continued.........



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/18 07:52 by Streamliner.

So sorry that happened to you. I have not experienced such discomfort on the Canadian. Time of year, the thaw?? I don't claim to know. On my recent trip, the passengers seemed happy enough although the train late/. I agree, when track is so rough coffee cannot be poured and passengers are screaming, a slower speed is in order. On my recent Canadian trip (mid-March), a couple said Prestige was better than their advance expectations. However, I feel sad for you having a bad trip/.

PS You ought to forward your story to VIA Customer Relations. I know they are quite concerned about their Prestige passengers.

This is the kind of story that makes me very concerned about the future of The Canadian. It is tough to offer a first class product given the kind of "service" VIA gets from CN. VIA does a great job of doing the best they can, but I can thoroughly understand why the typical passenger who rides in either Sleeper and Prestige is not going to be very sympathetic. And the problem is only going to get worse with the summer crowds. And looking at the current progress of trains out there today, there is certainly no trend suggesting things are getting better.

However, I am a bit surprised by your comments about the rough ride. On my last two trips (last November and this April) VIA has been quite late, so we were always trying to make up time. But the engineer really has little discretion, it is not like the old days. The speed limits are well defined and any time he is moving the engineer will accelerate to the maximum authorized speed and that's it, whether it is 20 mph or 79 mph. If he goes slower he is tying up the railroad. And there is no reward for breaking the speed limit to make up time, indeed the opposite. On my recent trips there were rough spots but nothing I considered extraordinary. Now if your standard of comparison is an ICE or TGV, than I can understand. But that's Europe and this is North America. But I do wonder, and the Canadians here might have some info, do the winter "frost heaves" tend to make a spring ride rougher than after a summer of track work. I have never noticed a big difference, but I'm an old railwayman and kind of used to the motion.

Sorry you had such a disappointing trip.

JBWX

I rode the Canadian from Vancouver to Toronto in February of this year. It was fantastic, with amazing scenery and great service in sleeper class. We were about a day late but slept very well and the ride was just fine. Slept great out of Edmonton as we did not move most of the night ha ha. Over the years I have noticed some rough tracks in SK when the train is going 79 or so....but it's not a large part of the trip IMO. In the rockies the train is very smooth as the speeds are alwasy pretty slow. I love Via Rail....a great oompany that way outperforms Amtrak IMO.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/18 14:00 by rdjtrains.

Just curious what room number you had. Always request a room at the center of the car. On normal sleepers, all bedrooms fit into that category with the roomettes (cabins for 1) and sections (births) over the wheels. It is unlikely the train went faster than the posted speed limit. Heads would roll if that occurred on more than one or two isolated occasions. You didn't say which car you were riding in. If it was the Prestige room in the Park Car, since that car is at the rear of the train, it tends to get whipped around a bit more with nothing on the rear to hold it back. Or perhaps your car was in needed of some suspension work. But as others have said, I've never had an overall rough ride on the train. Several Amtrak routes including the City of New Orleans (also run on tracks owned by CN) are far worse. Coincidence?

We were in bedroom B of a full Prestige Sleeper, but NOT because we chose that room. We made these reservations in early December and secured Cabin D, in the middle of the car, specifically so we would have a better ride. Then, the day before our trip, VIA said that they had to remove our sleeper “for maintenance” issues and moved us into a different car, giving us Cabin B. Of course, this was B.S., because there were only 3 Prestige bedrooms occupied on our ride. They removed the sleeper where our cabin was reserved, because they did not have enough paid fares to support it. If they would have just told us the truth, we would have understood. VIA must think that we are all morons.

Streamliner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We were in bedroom B of a full Prestige Sleeper,
> but NOT because we chose that room. We made these
> reservations in early December and secured Cabin
> D, in the middle of the car, specifically so we
> would have a better ride. Then, the day before
> our trip, VIA said that they had to remove our
> sleeper “for maintenance” issues and moved us
> into a different car, giving us Cabin B. Of
> course, this was B.S., because there were only 3
> Prestige bedrooms occupied on our ride. They
> removed the sleeper where our cabin was reserved,
> because they did not have enough paid fares to
> support it. If they would have just told us the
> truth, we would have understood. VIA must think
> that we are all morons.

I remember that thread about the car being removed for maintenance, and how much maintenance could be done in Vancouver.

Yes, I believe B could be rough riding. Also, I note here where I live in north of Michigan that now that weather is warming frost heaves are developing making the roads rougher. Wonder if this happens on railroads especially in the extreme cold climate where the CN is located.

Again, I suggest you contact VIA Customer Relations in Montreal regarding your bad trip. They were very helpful to me on a past Churchill trip when one locomotive broke down in -50F weather and we had to return to Churchill and I had to lay over for three days there. And I am well aware that you paid big $$$ for your trip.
Email is: customer_relations@viarail.ca Phone is 800-681-2561.

You can't expect them to haul one Chateau car for one sold room. Before the cars were re-done to Prestige Class rooms, I always tried to secure a room in the Park...normally B. Never had an issue with a rougher than normal ride. I suggest you ride the City of New Orleans, or Southwest Chief through western Kansas on jointed rail and you will experience what a really rough ride is. Or for real fun, take Rovos Rail through Zambia and try walking in a straight line. And their fares are way higher than VIA's. Noting the Europe comparison, TGV and ICE trains run mostly on dedicated high speed tracks with no freight trains to tear up the rails. As for the lateness, you should write to CN. I'm sure they would be happy to receive your complaint as they could care less about VIA Rail and it's passengers comfort or scheduled plans.

I think those of us who have had wonderful rides on The Canadian and post here tend to be more forgiving of the shortcomings. The typical "tourist" customer on The Canadian, if he or she has had ANY prior train riding experience, is arguably more likely to have done so in Europe than here. So expecting a reasonably smooth ride is probably more common than not. And the timekeeping...well....I can't think of anything that moves (other than maybe CN flight) that is as prone to the magnitude of delay as VIA 1 and 2. So VIA has a real challenge keeping these customers happy. Net net I give VIA high marks for trying and doing much well, but I suspect Streamliner represents far more customers than we would like to believe . Which is what worries me because riding the Canadian is one of my real pleasures and I would like to have the option for as long as possible. Unfortunately given the realities of what CN is up against (they do have a business to run, and right now they have more business than they can handle) I don't see an attractive solution, no real win-win possibilities. Sure hope somebody at VIA is smarter than me.

I might add that even though my wife and I honeymooned on The Canadian 40 some odd years ago (when it was CPR) she opts to stay home now. So some of the issues that she might have are not issues for me. And riding The Canadian has become a nice boy's night out kind of activity.

JBWX



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/18 19:00 by jbwest.

viatrainrider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I believe B could be rough riding. Also, I
> note here where I live in north of Michigan that
> now that weather is warming frost heaves are
> developing making the roads rougher. Wonder if
> this happens on railroads especially in the
> extreme cold climate where the CN is located.
>
> Again, I suggest you contact VIA Customer
> Relations in Montreal regarding your bad trip.
> They were very helpful to me on a past Churchill
> trip when one locomotive broke down in -50F
> weather and we had to return to Churchill and I
> had to lay over for three days there. And I am
> well aware that you paid big $$$ for your trip.
> Email is: customer_relations@viarail.ca Phone is
> 800-681-2561.


Thank you!!!

I know the feeling. A year ago June I was sure the car had jumped the tracks in the middle of the night, and at one point is was impossible to drink coffee in the dinner. When ever the train was sided we would rush to the dinner for a meal. Any meal! that was the only way we could eat without the food going everywhere.

edsaalig Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know the feeling. A year ago June I was sure
> the car had jumped the tracks in the middle of the
> night, and at one point is was impossible to
> drink coffee in the dinner. When ever the train
> was sided we would rush to the dinner for a meal.
> Any meal! that was the only way we could eat
> without the food going everywhere.


I just KNEW that there had to be someone else here who had a similar experience. Thank you for chiming in.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/18 15:46 by darkcloud.

I am getting somewhat tired of rich entitled foreigners complaining about Canadian rail service.

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON

thehighwayman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am getting somewhat tired of rich entitled
> foreigners complaining about Canadian rail
> service.

Maybe should be concerned with the economic impact of visitors to Canada not receiving the service they were lead to believe they would be getting. If the Federally chartered passenger railroad can’t deliver the service they spent millions of your tax dollars developing, they ought to stop pitching it to rich entitled foreigners.

Dave

If you ever have the desire to experience REALLY rough track take either of the Florida trains from NYC. Some of the turnouts on CSX are so rough its amazing they get away with running over them at 79mph night after night. On my last trip several months ago I was knocked out of the lower bunk in our bedroom and the netting saved my wife from being thrown off the top bunk.

She was so frightened by the southbound journey we flew home and she has vowed to become a " never againer".

Sad but true. Ross Rowland

darkcloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> andersonb109 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > On normal
> > sleepers, all bedrooms fit into that category
> with
> > the roomettes (cabins for 1) and sections
> (births)
> > over the wheels.
>
>
> LOL, might want to avoid the C section.

LOL!! Sections, and roomettes too, are numbered. It is refreshing, though, to see you working the humor side, for a change. Mr Andeson's spelling errors do make opportunities for humor, and his "births" (berths)....well. one sees what happens, heh, heh.

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

co614 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you ever have the desire to experience REALLY
> rough track take either of the Florida trains from
> NYC. Some of the turnouts on CSX are so rough its
> amazing they get away with running over them at
> 79mph night after night. On my last trip several
> months ago I was knocked out of the lower bunk in
> our bedroom and the netting saved my wife from
> being thrown off the top bunk.
>
> She was so frightened by the southbound journey
> we flew home and she has vowed to become a " never
> againer".
>
> Sad but true. Ross Rowland

A Union Pacific official had the same experience in the early 1950's aboard one of the "City" trains while it was operating between Omaha and Chicago on the Chicago and North Western. Union Pacific moved the operation of their trains from Chicago to Omaha to the Milwaukee Road.

Can't do that anymore.....BSB