Canadian Railroads > Alberta going ahead with new railcars for oil

Alberta will buy rail cars to move 120,000 barrels a day of stuck crudehttps://business.financialpost.com/commodities/energy/update-1-canadas-alberta-to-buy-rail-cars-expects-deal-within-weeks?video_autoplay=true

Premier Notley says she hopes details of deal can be announced by end of year ...

 

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON

New rail cars are great, but, do CN and CP have the crews, locomotives, and track capacity to move them?

Considering that much of the Alberta crude moves through the US for processing or export from Louisiana, that's a two week cycle at a minimum.

It would seem to be in Canada's interest to reach agreement for export via the Vancouver and Prince Rupert gateways. Much shorter rail distance, and faster turn on equipment. That would tap the higher world price, bringing more hard cash into Canada. With a $50 spread to Brent, Alberta can pay blackmail to eastern Canada and BC, and still have barrels of money left over

But it would require the federal government to show more leadership. And it would require BC to reach a deal.

There are a lot of almost new tank cars in storage across North America, pipelines coming on line in recent years had eased the "crude by rail" boom, given the lead time Alberta is talking about it sounds like they are planning on buying new cars, you would think they could cut a deal and get some bargains on existing under utilized equipment.  

As far as shipping from the west coast sounds like Brithish Columbia's urban elites (just like their urban elite cousins south of the border in Washington State) present a massive political obstacile  as they have opposed, export terminals, refineries as well as pipelines. 

mns019 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are a lot of almost new tank cars in storage
> across North America, pipelines coming on line in
> recent years had eased the "crude by rail" boom,
> given the lead time Alberta is talking about it
> sounds like they are planning on buying new cars,
> you would think they could cut a deal and get some
> bargains on existing under utilized
> equipment.  
>
> As far as shipping from the west coast sounds like
> Brithish Columbia's urban elites (just like their
> urban elite cousins south of the border in
> Washington State) present a massive political
> obstacile  as they have opposed, export
> terminals, refineries as well as pipelines. 


Yes.

That's why I said Canadians need to make serious decisions. It is THEIR MONEY after all, and their decision. A $50 per barrel of oil gift is very nice, though...

Posted from Android

On the national TV news tonight, a Greenpeace spokesman was worrying about the danger of oil by rail, pointing to the Lac Megantic tragedy.
No on pointed out that it was a cheapskate railroad owner who failed to ensure his staff complied with the regulations because he was pinching pennies.
My response to the Greenpeace guy would be ... if you don't want oil moving by rail, stop blocking the pipelines you idiot!

Now standing back, waiting for the flaming ....

 

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON

thehighwayman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the national TV news tonight, a Greenpeace
> spokesman was worrying about the danger of oil by
> rail, pointing to the Lac Megantic tragedy.
> No on pointed out that it was a cheapskate
> railroad owner who failed to ensure his staff
> complied with the regulations because he was
> pinching pennies.
> My response to the Greenpeace guy would be ... if
> you don't want oil moving by rail, stop blocking
> the pipelines you idiot!
>
> Now standing back, waiting for the flaming ....
>
>  


Nah, we won't flame you. Greenpeace on the other hand...


Oh, Greenpeace doesn't want the pipelines either. They're against using any kind of fossil fuel. 
In their eyes, if it burns, it pollutes.

mns019 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are a lot of almost new tank cars in storage
> across North America, pipelines coming on line in
> recent years had eased the "crude by rail" boom,
> given the lead time Alberta is talking about it
> sounds like they are planning on buying new cars,
> you would think they could cut a deal and get some
> bargains on existing under utilized
> equipment.  

They probably only want DOT-117 models which likely limits the supply.

Fresh off their winning battle with their blockage of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion, NIBY's and their media cohorts have now moved onto attacking the shipping industry. Before "tankers" were the boggy man. Now its "freighters" with their mooring and anchorage spots they have in their sights for elimination. So no queing up for berthing will be allowed.  The grain and commodities exporters better wake up, because all it takes is one idiot judge and they too will be in a world of hurt having to "prove" their activity is not damaging the resident Orca whale population. 

mns019 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far as shipping from the west coast sounds like
> British Columbia's urban elites (just like their
> urban elite cousins south of the border in
> Washington State) present a massive political
> obstacle  as they have opposed, export
> terminals, refineries as well as pipelines. 

Take away their automobiles and see how they react.  You will see minds changed in a hurry.

tomstp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Take away their automobiles and see how they
> react.  You will see minds changed in a hurry.

And put them on the "No Fly List" as well!

 

SOO6617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> They probably only want DOT-117 models which
> likely limits the supply.

That is correct. 

And lots of older and newer tank cars have been taken out of storage the last 6 months.


Allen

mns019 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are a lot of almost new tank cars in storage
> across North America

No.  The storage lines have thinned considerably since June 1st.  By spring of 2019 all will be back in service.


Allen

Some Alberta crude also requires heated coil tank cars. Which are in short supply.

Posted from Android

I’ll bet the province is buying existing cars from someone, since it’s cheaper and faster then getting new cars built.
Trevor

Posted from iPhone

A glance at an old time map of Vancouver will show a couple of locations around the harbours with the names Ioco (short for Imperial Oil Company, Standard Oil's Canadian subsidiary) and Britamco (British American Oil Company, later Gulf) and also a Texaco rail served oil terminal. Some of these are still active and still rail served shipping a variety of energy products, oil, gas, LPG and other products. In steam years, Alberta crude was shipped in unit tank car trains across the mountains. Today, there are several inland oil terminals where diesel and gasoline are shipped by rail from Alberta to locations in BC where the oil products are transferred to highway tankers which then travel hundreds of miles to gas stations and bulk fuel dealerships.

Oil by rail is nothing new to Canada, and has had few incidents,

Facts or historical experience don't mean much to people whose target is the elimination of fossil fuel use. 

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Facts or historical experience don't mean much to
> people whose target is the elimination of fossil
> fuel use. 

That is true, but the fact is that is that Canada has a working oil transportation network that has been in place for many decades.

Despite the obvious differences of governance between Canada and the US, functionaly the two democracies work very similarly.

Alberta has a long history of social conservatism, British Columbia swings from left to right. Canada swings from centre-left to centre right.

Canada is a noisy democracy, and the differences of opinion are reflected in the choices of political party at election time, and in the media.

Viewed from afar, observers might think the politics are more radical than they are. I don't know how many times US citizens have characterized
Canadian politics as "Communist" when the reality is that the political spectrum is closely similar to that of Republican and Democrat politics in the States.

eminence_grise Wrote:

> Viewed from afar, observers might think the
> politics are more radical than they are. I don't
> know how many times US citizens have
> characterized
> Canadian politics as "Communist" when the reality
> is that the political spectrum is closely similar
> to that of Republican and Democrat politics in the
> States.

Phil, I think they see us as communist because we openly embrace some aspects of socialism (healthcare is a good example).
Most Americans cannot tell the difference between socialism and communism. They think they are the same thing, when in fact, they are not.
One fact that might get Americans upset is the obvious fact Jesus practiced some forms of socialism .....

 

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON