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Canadian Railroads > Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late


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Date: 02/05/19 03:31
Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: andersonb109

Now what?  VIA No. 2 is over 18 ours late in Ontario. No. 1 is over 15 hours late west of Winnipeg....it departed Toronto on time.  The weather has warmed significantly over the past few days. (and please don't ask why do I care.....everyday many others post similar questions about status of Amtrak trains that are far less late than this). I'm on No. 1 next month and am interested in current operational patterns. 



Date: 02/05/19 04:11
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: BigDave

Are they affected by the crash at the Spiral Tunnels?
 



Date: 02/05/19 05:07
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: viatrainrider

Don't think affected by wreck at spiral tunnels as that is CP and #1 runs on CN.
However, #1 was having a pretty good run leaving Reditt close to on time then  but arriving WPG almost five hours late at 12:40.  Then not out of WPG until 02:12 this morning if I read this correctly.  In station almost 13 hours.  Mechanical problems?  And now making slow progress to Portage la Prairie, now over four hours so far.
And I care too because this is my favorite train and will be on it in April.  But the good news is that I believe I have noted some pretty good runs of #1 - 2 lately.  But something is very wrong today.
The above mentioned times per Transit docs and I am presuming they are close to correct.



Date: 02/05/19 06:07
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: Jimbo

Fred Frailey is on Number 2 and has reported on his blog, here:  http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey/archive/2019/02/03/my-new-life-in-young-sask.aspx

Don't believe you need to be a TRAINS subscriber to access the blogs.

Sounds like congestion compounded by the cold weather.

He has also started another, humorous blog about Amtrak spawned on the Canadian that I'll leave for another post by someone.............



Date: 02/05/19 06:12
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: BigDave

Could detouring freights cause the problem?
 



Date: 02/05/19 06:39
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: viatrainrider

Detouring CP freights quite possible.  Noted that yesterday's #2 took almost 12 hours from Melville to Portage la Praire meaning crew change before WPG.  Suspect major CN congestion.  I have been on #2 pretty much on time at Melville and then saw nothing but yellow signals all the way to Portage with CN not letting us by the offending freights.

So I will now go to the other post and see what Fred has to say.  Thanks for posting that info!



Date: 02/05/19 15:44
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: tsokolan

Temps in Wesern Canada have dropped this past week, causing all sorts of delays east and west on CN which have impacted VIA's schedule

-Trevor



Date: 02/05/19 19:01
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: spwolfmtn

viatrainrider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Detouring CP freights quite possible.  Noted that
> yesterday's #2 took almost 12 hours from Melville
> to Portage la Praire meaning crew change before
> WPG.  Suspect major CN congestion.  I have been
> on #2 pretty much on time at Melville and then saw
> nothing but yellow signals all the way to Portage
> with CN not letting us by the offending freights.
>
> So I will now go to the other post and see what
> Fred has to say.  Thanks for posting that info!

Must be all "fake news", with PSR in place on both Canadian railroads, things are running "silky smoothe"....



Date: 02/05/19 19:32
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: DrawingroomA

The Canadian arrived in Toronto at 22:25 - eight hours 25 minutes late. At one point near Redditt (in northern Ontario)  it was running over 16 hours late. The departure of today's # 1 is now set for 09:30 Wed. By coincidence this is the day and time it is expected to be leaving starting in May.

Westbound train #1 isn't making up any time. It was over 23 hours late at Watrous.

Not all runs of the Canadian have been late this year. A few dates I checked at random had #1 arriving in Vancouver one hour early and on three days #2 arrived in Toronto between one hour 40 minutes and two hours early.



Date: 02/05/19 21:24
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: SP4360

SOGReh



Date: 02/06/19 03:42
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: andersonb109

Why does CN continue to run more trains than they have capacity for? There attitude to one of their clients (VIA Rail) is shameful. On the bright side, at least Fred had access to actual cooked food, generally friendly crews, and presumably his sleeper didn't smell like a toilet.However the slow progress makes for a boring ride even if arriving on schedule isn't a priority. Question for those in the know. When the train turns up in Vancouver in the middle of the night, do passengers get to stay on board until morning? I have a hotel booked that can only be canceled 24 hours prior. That might be too soon to know if it should be dumped given the slack in the schedule and ability to make up time. Will VIA pay for the unused night should it not be needed? You can sure bet I would try for at least points put into my Preference account to equal the value of the unused room. 



Date: 02/06/19 07:10
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: viatrainrider

A year ago I was on #1 that was 22 hours late heading to Vancouver.  I was told that if we were going to arrive later than midnight or 1 AM, we would be allowed to stay on board until 6 or 7 AM.  So I was faced with the same problem with my hotel that I had booked in advance for two nights.  Noting the trains were running very late then before the new schedule, I called the hotel from home and explained the situation.  The told me to call whenever I knew what the situation would be.  I did this and they waived the 24 hour cancel thing but I gave them about 12 hours notice on my hoped for arrival day when I could see we would arrive 22 hours late.  They allowed me to cancel my first night without a problem and kept my reservation for the second night.  Of coourse staying another night on board was how it was account we didn't arrive  until 7 AM or so.  On time would have been 9:40 AM the previous day.

My hope for you is as the weather improves, an on time or close will become the norm again.  On my last trip last October I was in 10 minutes early at Vancouver.



Date: 02/06/19 11:24
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: ATSF3751

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why does CN continue to run more trains than they
> have capacity for? There attitude to one of their
> clients (VIA Rail) is shameful.

Why should they? Via Rail is a "forced" client that creates traffic flow problems that probably exceed the value received.  Also, have you ever considered this: why would CN deliberatly refuse profitable business in order to expedite what essentially amounts to an "excursion" train that carries railbuffs, tourists, and occasionally....local passengers. 
On the bright
> side, at least Fred had access to actual cooked
> food, generally friendly crews, and presumably his
> sleeper didn't smell like a toilet.However the
> slow progress makes for a boring ride even if
> arriving on schedule isn't a priority. Question
> for those in the know. When the train turns up in
> Vancouver in the middle of the night, do
> passengers get to stay on board until morning? I
> have a hotel booked that can only be canceled 24
> hours prior. That might be too soon to know if it
> should be dumped given the slack in the schedule
> and ability to make up time. Will VIA pay for the
> unused night should it not be needed? You can sure
> bet I would try for at least points put into my
> Preference account to equal the value of the
> unused room. 

It would be interesting to see a response from you on how you would handle CN's traffic more efficently. But then, I've never read any rebuttal by you. I don't think any exist. 



Date: 02/06/19 13:43
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: stash

CN is inept at running trains on schedule.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/06/19 14:30
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: agentatascadero

Yikes!  I can see how this thread could go south very quickly........but, speaking with as much civility as possible, I'd like to add this to the discussion........

EHH is in line for most of the criticism of CN's traffic problems......I think we all know the PSR story.  I've read Frailey's account of how the do meets these days.......by spreading trains out along 3 sidings, then, after the meet, spend hours putting the monster train back together.......all occuring out on the single track main line.

I'm unable to see the value of running these monster trains when it is a certainty that they'll cog the main for their entire run......a couple of meets could use up an entire 12 hour work "day".

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA



Date: 02/07/19 10:38
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: joemvcnj

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why should they? Via Rail is a "forced" client
> that creates traffic flow problems that probably
> exceed the value received.  Also, have you ever
> considered this: why would CN deliberately refuse
> profitable business in order to expedite what
> essentially amounts to an "excursion" train that
> carries railbuffs, tourists, and
> occasionally....local passengers. 
> On the bright

Because they have a business contract with an agreed upon schedule that CN actually mandated and are expected to abide by it, PERIOD. The demographics of VIA Rail passengers are irrelevant.

Their failure to do so and increased expenses to VIA Rail amounts to a government subsidy to CN. VIA Rail is also a canary in a coal mine with EHH-inspired PSR nonsense, which means taking much of a day breaking up freight trains in 3 pieces miles apart and putting them back together for passing meets. Such 1870's wagon train antics does not make shippers happy.



Date: 02/07/19 10:42
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: spwolfmtn

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would be interesting to see a response from you
> on how you would handle CN's traffic more
> efficently. But then, I've never read any rebuttal
> by you. I don't think any exist. 

Other's on here have given you your answer.  CN's (and the PSR philosophy that has been adopted by many railroads) are likely at the heart of this.  When a railroad is only concerned about running trains as cheaply as possible, they are creating their own congestion problems.  It is lunacy in how CN does these crazy triple siding meets and running monster trains that plug up the railroad.  Yes, CN is now trying to address some of this with capacity improvements, but Hunter Harrison's PSR reign also severely reduced CN's ability to handle this traffic.  PSR does not allow for any flexibility in train operations as, by PSR's design, the railroad "sweats out it's assets" to the point there is no flexibility and resources available for increase in business.



Date: 02/07/19 16:26
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: ATSF3751

spwolfmtn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ATSF3751 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It would be interesting to see a response from
> you
> > on how you would handle CN's traffic more
> > efficently. But then, I've never read any
> rebuttal
> > by you. I don't think any exist. 
>
> Other's on here have given you your answer. 

Really? All I see are repsonses by railbuffs. To the best of my knowledge, none of them are in charge of a class one railroad. Are you? Do you have stockholders to answer too? I doubt if Anderson does. He (and maybe you) is very good at complaining about big government at the same time he sticks his hand out for more $$ subidies for Amtrak (and VIA's) oerations and 19th century food delivery systems. 
CN's
> (and the PSR philosophy that has been adopted by
> many railroads) are likely at the heart of this. 
> When a railroad is only concerned about running
> trains as cheaply as possible, they are creating
> their own congestion problems.  It is lunacy in
> how CN does these crazy triple siding meets and
> running monster trains that plug up the
> railroad.  Yes, CN is now trying to address some
> of this with capacity improvements, but Hunter
> Harrison's PSR reign also severely reduced CN's
> ability to handle this traffic.  PSR does not
> allow for any flexibility in train operations as,
> by PSR's design, the railroad "sweats out it's
> assets" to the point there is no flexibility and
> resources available for increase in business.

Look, the stockholders and regulators will slam CN's managment if conditions continue to the point of dimished returns and/or mounting customer complaints. For whatever reason, CN decided to try a novel approach. If it fails, then the blame should go to those responsible.
Via is an unwanted guest at best. Let's not kid ourselves. I'm sure the folks were popping champaign over at CP when it was decided by VIA to drop the original route. CP got "Manna from heaven" without even having to ask. 

FYI. I ride Amtrak and have ridden VIA's Canadian as well. I like them both. I am not anti-rail passenger service, I encourage ways to provide services in the most cost effective way. VIA's Canadian is long overdue for replacement and is nearing the end of it's service life. Something not lost on VIA management. Budd equipment is excellent, but even it has a limited lifespan. 



Date: 02/07/19 18:06
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: joemvcnj

You are rambling on about irrelevant nonsense, Amtrak dining cars, and calling anyone who disagrees a railbuff. Age of the VIA Budd equipment got nothing to do with it.

A business agreement is a business agreement and they are expected to abide by it, regardless of their nonsensical freight train make ups. They got the train down to twice a week and taking 24 hours longer than it did 40 years ago. If CN cannot cope with that, they should be renationalized to throw the rascals out because they cannot figure out how to run freight trains either.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/19 18:20 by joemvcnj.



Date: 02/07/19 18:20
Re: Now what? Both Canadian's over 15 hours late
Author: viatrainrider

well said Joe!



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