Canadian Railroads > Unique Consists for VIA Rail Long Distance Trains

Anyone have anything interesting to report on VIA Rail Canada's "long distance" trains. The following was written about, what's been the experience or any updates:

- Ocean would be running with one Renaissance trainset and one mixed Budd/Renaissance trainset (with Renaissance sleepers mid-train to allow for additional capacity)
- Skyline Dome Car subbing for a Diner on the Hudson Bay Train - actually not sure why this couldn't be year-round now. 
- Panorama Car operating on two of three of the Canadian trains, while one is not operating with Panorama Car since it is needed on the Train to Prince Rupert (Touring Class on the Skeena train)
- What's the consist for trains 3 and 4 - do Prestige cars and Park Car make it to this consist? Should be able to. 

I think there were some other shuffles too, but these were the most prominent. Could the Panorama Car be switched out at Winnipeg so as to operate Winnipeg to Vancouver on all three consists so that ONE is not totally left without? 

Have to wonder if VIA should "lease" Viewliner cars from Amtrak to operate over the Ocean's route eventually. VIA would need sleepers though. I am sure they'd have no issue in operating the Viewliner II Diner. Integrating the cars with the head-end wiring would have to be arranged though! VIA leased the 10-6 Heritage Amtrak Sleepers for the Hudson Bay Route before making the purchase - which didnt turn out to well (cars froze up too much).                                                                     

Here's yesterday's #15 arriving in Montreal just as you described - a mixed trainset.

Ray

---

Here are some different views of the first westbound  hybrid Ocean on June 7.  The 19 cars include two Ren transition cars, 7601 and 7602.  The only other transition car is 7600 on the other Ocean set of equipment.  Interestingly, there is also a Ren coach ahead of the service/diner/service set, then an accessible sleeper, a regular Ren sleeper, the second transition car, and then the Chateau sleepers and Assiniboine Park.  The consist seems to have stayed substantially the same since then.

First image is crossing the Tantramar Marsh in New Brunswick, with the former Radio Canada International site in the background.  Next is leaving the Moncton crew change stop, while the video was shot at the East Mines Trestle in Nova Scotia.

GTD

---

---

You must be a registered subscriber to watch videos. Join Today!

Here is my consist for Friday June 14, 2019 on #14 out of Montreal :
6441
6452
8622
8123
8137
8138
8140
7601
70217
7309
7401
7314
79515
7512
7602
8223
8219
8214
8203
8208
8202
8702 Assiniboine Park
20 cars long!!! 

On this particular day, the Ocean got a diverging-to-stop signal at Marsh Jct. leaving the station stop.  They would have to wait a few minutes at Odlum for train 569, the Miramichi local to clear.  But it gave us just enough time to get ahead of them under the now sunny skies, for one last shot passing the mile 131 detector at Lutesville (aka the Landfill), NB.

Oops, I missed the fact that 8123 had been added to the Budd coaches at some point.  And I had shot (foggy) video of that same set on the 16th.

GTD



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/19 08:04 by cn6218.

---

I guess each end of a REN train set (5 or 7 cars ?) has a standard AAR coupler ?

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess each end of a REN train set (5 or 7 cars
> ?) has a standard AAR coupler ?

Each end of a transition car (7600-7602) or baggage car (7001-7011) has a standard coupler.  AFAIK, only the transition cars are setup for passengers to walk through.  I suspect the baggage cars are much more utilitarian.

Although they're often described as "fixed consist", I think the Ren sets can be configured any way they like, it just takes a lot of time to do it.  That may be why they never were used on the Chaleur, too.  The wye at Gaspé is long enough to accomodate an entire train being turned, but the one at New Carlisle could only handle an F40 and 2 or 3 cars.  That meant if a short turn was required (not infrequent if the combined train was late into Matapedia, and all the time for the last year or so of operation), turning the train would likely require the services of a carman or two in addition to the regular crew.  

When the Ocean operated without a Park car for a few years, a small knuckle coupler (painted orange) was bolted onto the last car, presumably to be used in an emergency.  It didn't look substantial enough to be relied on to tow a train at speed though.

GTD

Such an interesting consist and likely a taste of things to come for the Maritimes.......it's sad that the Renaissance sleepers couldn't be used instead of the Chateau sleepers. This consist has six Chateau cars and two Renaissance Sleepers - TOTAL of EIGHT (8) SLEEPERS! The Chateau cars could bring in more money on a Canadian consist for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if VIA has figured out what's the max consist for the two day a week Canadian (even during the "peakest of peak" seasons). Then the balance of cars transferred to the Maritime. When things come up short - the Renaissance sleepers are added. 

VIA's indirectly (and perhaps directly and I missed it) said that they are not fixing the one Renaissance train set that was involved in "hitting debris" on the CN mainline a few months ago (back in winter) - and cherry picked what cars weren't damaged and you are seeing them in operation here in these photos. They also seemed to have taken another Renaissance train set that had been operating in the Maritime out of service. Recall that it took three total Renaissance consists to operate the Ocean when going six days a week. Only ONE full Renaissance train set holds down the Ocean's schedule, while the other one is as pictured above - now a mix of Budd and Renaissance equipment. 

Renaissance Train sets:
1) Train set 1 - Still in operation in Maritime/Ocean Service
2) Train set 2 - Damaged by Debris on tracks while operating on the CN Ocean Route; Cars not damaged will add to a mixed Budd/Renaissance Train set, as only two train sets needed to hold down Ocean's schedule
3) Transet 3 - Retired for the most part (other than being used to sub cars if needed (e.g. transition car needed for train set #2). 

The Eight Sleepers provide 182 berths. 

Chateau Sleepers have - 8 roomettes, 3 open sections, 1 triple bedroom, and 3 double bedrooms = (8 x 1) + (3 x 2) + (1 x 3) + (3 x 2) = 23 berths x 6 cars = 138 berths
Renaissance Sleeper have 10 double bedrooms = 10 x 2 = 20 berths x 2 cars = 40 berths
Park Car 2 bedrooms for two are being sold (as "suites) = 2 x2 = 4 berths x 1 car = 4 berths

So this Ocean consist is operating with 182 berths for sale. Even if one Chateau car is being used as a "crew car" you are looking at 159 berths. 

Compare this to the Silver Meteor with three Viewliners in operation or the CA Zephyr where three Superliner Sleepers are being operated

Silver Meteor has 90 berths (30 berths each when considering Handicap, Bedrooms, and Roomettes as doubles)
CA Zephyr has 40 berths for sale per Superliner x 3 = 120 berths for sale (all rooms treated as double occupancy minus 1 for crew space). 

Ocean - 159 TL berths for sale (when allocating for 1 Chateau as a crew car)
Silver Meteor - 90 TL berths for sale
CA Zephyr - 120 berths for sale

At best, four Superliner sleepers operated by the Empire Builder, and maybe the Coast Starlight (at one time), you are talking 159 berths being sold for VIA and 160 berths being sold for Amtrak. And I am likely being generous with allocating 1 full Chateau car to the sleeping car crew (or equivalent of). 

Consider that most of the time Amtrak is operating with two Superliners on most long distance trains (or LESS or a few more in peak season). Three Superliners only really on the Coast Starlight (year-round with one that used to be added to make four in peak peak season), Empire Builder (peak season with one additional recently added on Portland section), CA Zephyr (peak season).  

What conclusions can be drawn from this? 

Depends on how you look at it.... Amtrak needs to attract and get the higher end revenue via sleeper on a more consistent basis. We finally saw one more additional sleeper added to the Empire Builder's Portland section, but that's been a long time coming and needed. The Cardinal needs a second Viewliner sleeper. And I realize that if the additional sleeper(s) are added, they need to be filled. VIA somehow has no real problem in filling them especially in peak season - the Canadian, Ocean, and even the Hudson Bay line. VIA may have lower number of berths for sale per car, but they are definitely providing enough cars in a consist that make them exceed Amtrak's sleeper car berth inventory in PEAK periods! And VIA can easily add two more Renaissance sleeper to this consist if it wanted to. VIA's going after the high end revenue - and granted they are charging more, but I think passengers are willing to pay because they know they are getting a good product and onboard service. Amtrak struggles with this. VIA is also getting the tour groups (even with a horrendously poor OTP rate for the Canadian).......Amtrak's inconsistent product and delivery is not doing it. 

Good for coach passengers. HEP-I coaches have legrests and recline farther. I would never ride a REN coach overnight again. Been there / did that on the Enterprise.  

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good for coach passengers. HEP-I coaches have
> legrests and recline farther. I would never ride a
> REN coach overnight again. Been there / did that
> on the Enterprise. 

 Been there / did that in a REN Coach overnight on the Ocean. No problem sleeping at all and it was certainly nice having the option of a single seat.

I don't care if it's a single seat. Do you really have that option ? I thought you merely pick aisle/window, and it is the luck of the draw. I happened to ride a REN coach to QC last summer. My single seat wasn't an original. It looked different. It did not recline/slide out at all. I hope I don't get that car again next month, but I always wind up with the same seat and car number on that same train when I reserve 5 months out.