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Date: 02/12/20 02:11
Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days...
Author: JPB

...Why are the Canadian Federal/Provincial law enforcement officials permitting these protesters to continue to impede the flow of general goods on CN in the eastern and western Canada, as well Via patrons in a busy corridor?

Excerpts from news articles:

“Although we remain hopeful that a resolution will be reached, in view of the current uncertainty, VIA Rail is cancelling all departures until Thursday end of day on the Montreal-Toronto and Toronto-Ottawa routes, in both directions,” Via spokeswoman Marie-Anna Murat said in an email..."

"A blockade near New Hazelton, B.C., means normal rail activities are also being interrupted between Prince Rupert and Prince George, she said. Via Rail’s announcement followed the warning from CN, which has halted more than 150 freight trains since Thursday evening when demonstrators set up the blockades in B.C. and Ontario. The Montreal-based railway said Monday that long-distance freight shipments in Central and Eastern Canada were already at a virtual standstill. Chief executive JJ Ruest stressed the limited parking space in its network, with traffic, backed up from Halifax to Windsor, Ont., and in parts of B.C. approaching Prince Rupert."

"Olin Corp., a Missouri-based chemical maker with a facility near Trois-Rivieres, Que., cautioned Ottawa that its tight distribution schedule means the 50-odd Canadian companies it serves will soon stop receiving chlorine — used in part to treat drinking water — which it says is only shipped by rail."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tc-energy-pipeline-canad-natio-rail/canadian-national-railway-could-shut-parts-of-network-because-of-pipeline-protests-idUSKBN2052G2

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/02/11/cn-rail-threatens-to-close-network-over-blockades/



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/20 02:54 by JPB.



Date: 02/12/20 02:19
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: dcfbalcoS1

           Because they are slaves to the protestors.



Date: 02/12/20 03:09
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: andersonb109

Good grief. Call out the RCMP and arrest these losers. It's fine to protest but not when it disrupts the lives of others. What's the issue with the pipe line anyway? Probably a lot safer than tank cars.  Or maybe they only want so called green energy. 



Date: 02/12/20 03:33
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: Ray_Murphy

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good grief. Call out the RCMP and arrest these
> losers. It's fine to protest but not when it
> disrupts the lives of others. What's the issue
> with the pipe line anyway? Probably a lot safer
> than tank cars.  Or maybe they only want so
> called green energy. 


https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/tyendinaga-mohawk-railway-opp-meeting-1.5460005



Date: 02/12/20 03:59
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: algoma11

And where's our prime minister- In Ethiopa trying to get support for a UN security council seat !
Charlie Brown would say " GOOD GRIEF " 

He should be home tending the farm !
As I understand it 230 of 239 bands agree with the pipline in BC and want to be part owners. If they want to self govern, let them get the other bands to get in line and quit messing things up !

Mike Bannon
St Catharines, ON



Date: 02/12/20 06:28
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: Lackawanna484

The eastern blockades are organized by the Mohawk nation, intended as a statement of sympathy for the western band of protesters. 3,000+ miles away.

(I believe the Mohawk nation has a well deserved reputation producing superb iron workers and high altitude construction teams.)


 



Date: 02/12/20 06:43
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: joemvcnj

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good grief. Call out the RCMP and arrest these
> losers. It's fine to protest but not when it
> disrupts the lives of others. What's the issue
> with the pipe line anyway? Probably a lot safer
> than tank cars.  Or maybe they only want so
> called green energy. 

Pipelines leak and contaminate water, even rather new ones, so routed to lower population areas where the people are politically impotent. Oil trains derail, explode, and can evacuate or blow up a town. Either way, moving oil is dangerous. 



Date: 02/12/20 07:21
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: eminence_grise

The Trans Mountain pipeline was built in the early 1960's. Someone involved in building the expansion project characterized some of the issues regarding property owners this way.
She freely admitted the culture of the energy industry has greatly evolved in the last sixty years, and so has the governance of Canada's first nations.

Simply put, some of the agreements were fair and honest, others not so much. Some of the blame must go to the Indian Band Councils back in the 1960's, who simply signed and took the money without sharing it with the rest of the First Nation. 

During the past few years, a long going review of all the agreements signed previously has resulted in many changes. The energy companies are rich and powerful today as they were in the past. Their relationship with various levels of Government has changed. I suspect many of the requests made to the Governments by the energy companies were simply "rubber stamped" without thorough legal and environmental review.



Date: 02/12/20 07:28
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: co614

Until they get the gumption to arrest them all and let them sit in jail for a few months while their case are " adjudicated" this nonsense will only get worse. Most of them are unemployed vagrants living on myriad social " safety net" programs who've got nothing better to do. 

   Continued coddling these losers will only make things worse.

   IMHO-Ross Rowland 



Date: 02/12/20 08:15
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: thehighwayman

As luck would have it, the weekly Globe & Mail western newsletter has a succinct explanation of some of the issue:The dispute over the construction of the Coastal GasLink natural gas pipeline has ignited solidarity protests across the country. The impact of the blockade of a forested logging road in Northern British Columbia has now prompted the halt of commuter trains in Montreal and freight trains travelling Canadian National Railway’s network. Traffic in Vancouver has been disrupted and protesters swarmed the grounds of the B.C. Legislature and confronted politicians.
  CN’s chief executive JJ Ruest noted Tuesday that long-distance freight shipments in Central and Eastern Canada have been virtually frozen and train traffic is backed up from Halifax to Windsor, Ont., and in parts of B.C. approaching Prince Rupert.
  In Victoria, chaotic protests blocking access to the B.C. Legislature very nearly forced the cancellation of the government’s Throne Speech. Lieutenant-Governor Janet Austin eventually found her way into the building to read a speech that pledged the government’s promise to move forward with the LNG project at the heart of the dispute.
  The dispute has underlined some of the most difficult questions facing resource development in Canada: Supporters of the project – that include the 20 elected Indigenous band councils along the pipeline route – say it will create jobs and economic activity in an area in desperate need of both. LNG, they argue, is not the same as oil sands bitumen; it is cleaner burning with fewer environmental risks in the event of a pipeline rupture.
  Environmental opponents argue LNG production continues to generate carbon emissions and does little to move the world away from fossil fuels. The pipeline should not cross the territory of an Indigenous group that is vehemently opposed, protesters argue.
  But the division between the two sides isn’t quite that tidy. While the pipeline is opposed by the hereditary chiefs of one group, the Wet’suwet’en, it is supported by the elected chiefs and band councils along the route. That includes elected representatives of the Wet’suwet’en. Opponents of the pipeline regard those elected representatives as the product of a colonial – and therefore – illegitimate system.
  Reporter Brent Jang, who has been on this story since the first blockade broke out in December, 2018, has done a diligent job of explaining, complete with a useful chart, what the hereditary system is: Five clans with 13 house chiefs, as well as a series of subchiefs.
  But the question of how the hereditary system works turned out to be much, much more difficult. Brent and Wendy Stueck spent weeks sorting through court affidavits and speaking with scholars to understand how hereditary chiefs lead and where they draw their authority.
  What they learned is that hereditary governance long predates the imposition of the Indian Act band and council system. The hereditary houses, guided by rules passed down through stories and dances and made real in the feast house, continue to be recognized by the courts and by the Wet’suwet’en themselves as authority in the vast expanses of territory the Wet’suwet’en claim. (The hereditary chiefs maintain elected chiefs and councils can claim authority over only the small territory granted as a reserve.)
  But Wendy and Brent also found hereditary governance – like all forms of politics – is vulnerable to what one band member called “distortion.” In a matrilineal society, two women have been stripped of their titles as hereditary house chiefs, replaced by men. Of the 13 hereditary house groups, nine of the head chiefs are men and four positions are vacant. One prominent subchief, a leader of the protest movement, ran recently for a position on the elected band council and was defeated.
  A solution to this dilemma and future ones that will be inevitable is not clear, as columnist Andrew Coyne writes.
  “The courts have offered little guidance as to where the appropriate balance lies, beyond admonishing both sides to negotiate in good faith,” he notes.
==

The "hereditary" chiefs have only the authority they give themselves.
A number of years ago, the government transportation agency I worked for was doing the very early preliminary investigative work to determine if a new highway was needed between point A and point B. As part of that, we had to consult with everyone potentially impacted. The elected band council was cooperative and was willing to work and discuss the process with us. When it came to the "hereditary" leaders (who refused to accept the elected council's authority) were less than easy to work with. They were polite to our faces, but their "system" was archaic, unweildy and complex. One of my co-workers, a senior official, suffered a heart attack during one meeting! Their process was to talk and talk and talk ... never voting on an issue ... they insisted they had to come to a consensus. In other words, one individual could kibosh the whole thing!

 

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON



Date: 02/12/20 08:59
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: Ray_Murphy

You will recall that the "shoot first, ask questions later" policing approach was tried in 1990, and it led to a 3-month shutdown of the same CP rail line in Montreal (Oka Crisis).

Ray



Date: 02/12/20 09:36
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: Lackawanna484

Didn't Chevron offer welding classes and guaranteed work on a prior pipeline project in BC?

Posted from Android



Date: 02/12/20 11:02
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: DrawingroomA

joemvcnj Wrote:

>
> Pipelines leak and contaminate water, even rather
> new ones, so routed to lower population areas
> where the people are politically impotent. Oil
> trains derail, explode, and can evacuate or blow
> up a town. Either way, moving oil is dangerous. 

The pipe line in question is for natural gas, not oil. See the detailed posting by "highwayman" above.

The media have given little publicity to the First Nations members who support the pipeline.  The Toronto Star had an article from the Canadian Press yesterday. One quote of interest under Indigenous Support: "Chief Coun. Crystal Smith of the Haisla Nation in Kitimat said last month that the project will help the community become less reliant on federal funding."

Information regarding the Kingston Sub. blockage near Belleville and other issues:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/tyendinaga-mohawk-railway-opp-meeting-1.5460005

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-anti-pipeline-protests-1.5460793



 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/20 11:14 by DrawingroomA.



Date: 02/12/20 11:50
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: asheldrake

This thread has been very helpful for me to understand what this is all about....for instance I had no idea that this was a second line and that it was for natural gas.  Thanks to all for your informative postings.    Arlen 



Date: 02/12/20 13:21
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: algoma11

This pipline is natural gas not oil, there has not been a problem with an LNG line except from impact ( unlikely ) or unauthorised digging.
Frankly the natives cry for self governing powers but can't control themselves.
The majority of the bands in BC are for the pipeline so they should settle this among themselves.

Mike Bannon
St Catharines, ON



Date: 02/12/20 14:40
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: thehighwayman

algoma11 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Frankly the natives cry for self governing powers
> but can't control themselves.
> The majority of the bands in BC are for the
> pipeline so they should settle this among
> themselves.

The problem is that the hereditary chiefs feel that they have a "veto" power. They think that because even one of them is opposed, the whole thing should be stopped!
Normally, I would side with the First Nations in a dispute ... but not when they start throwing around this kind of bovine excrement!
Far too many people, who have never had to try to deal with "hereditary" leaders buy in to their fertilizer!

 

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON



Date: 02/12/20 16:45
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: ATSF3751

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good grief. Call out the RCMP and arrest these
> losers. It's fine to protest but not when it
> disrupts the lives of others. What's the issue
> with the pipe line anyway? Probably a lot safer
> than tank cars. 
Especially when pipelines rupture or leak and such issues go undiscovered for days. I'm sure you of ALL people would love your water contaminated with petrolium products. Gotta love that "oily" smell. 

Or maybe they only want so
> called green energy. 

"So called"...lol...try reading up on the subject. Oh sorry, you don;t really care, do you?



Date: 02/12/20 17:29
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: DrawingroomA

VIA has just posted that they have cancelled all trains on this route until the end of Friday the 14th. That will be eight and a  half days without service.



Date: 02/13/20 09:59
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: WW

When protests degenerate from peaceful assembly to actively disrupting activities that are being conducted lawfully, it's time to start arresting people and stopping the disruption.  In countries like the US and Canada, elected officials swear an oath to uphold the law.  When they refuse to do that, they have violated their oath of office and should be removed.  I know all of this well--I am a former elected official and took  that oath seriously.  I often had to enforce regulations that were unpopular, and with which I often personally disagreed.  No matter--when you're an elected official in the Executive Branch of government, you don't swear an oath only to uphold the laws you like or that are politically popular.  Too many latter day political hacks don't care or understand what their role as an elected official is--they are gutless wonders.  And that doesn't matter if it's Canada or the US.  If you don't like enforcing duly enacted laws, then don't run for an elected Executive Branch office.  Simple enough.

One other note:  I'll start taking the motivation for these protests against transportation of petroleum products and natural gas seriously when the protesters themselves totally swear off using gasoline, diesel fuel and natural gas.  Not bloody likely.  Until then, they just need to go lay down by their dish and be quiet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/20 10:03 by WW.



Date: 02/13/20 11:12
Re: Pipeline Protesters have impeded flow of goods/Via for 5 days
Author: algoma11

I agree 100% WW. The authorities and governments need to put a stop to this stuff.
Of course our prime minister is too busy trying to get on the UN security council to notice things going to hell in a handbasket !

Mike Bannon
St Catharines, ON



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