Canadian Railroads > CPKC promises Amtrak through Detroit River Tunnel to Windsor & TO

Amtrak has given the CPKC union its blessing,
contingent on several promises,
one of which involves southern Ontario.

https://www.cpr.ca/en/media/amtrak-pledges-support-for-cp-kcs-combination

CP has promised to Amtrak --
-

• "Passenger service through the Detroit River Tunnel between Michigan and Ontario to Windsor and Toronto (with connections to VIA Rail Canada). "

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/22 15:24 by Marcus.

I like the line "Amtrak has transformed transportation in America."  I think we can all agree on that...but not always for better. Until the border opens without the restrictions still in place after two years, not much point in talking about through Amtrak service. 

Has anyone figure out how they will handle Customs ? If it is done as it is at Niagara Falls, not even a bus load of passengers, and most days a van load, will cross the border and put up with their off-train security theatre for two hours. That's how the International died. How soon people forget. 

Train29 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like the line "Amtrak has transformed
> transportation in America."  I think we can all
> agree on that...but not always for better. Until
> the border opens without the restrictions still in
> place after two years, not much point in talking
> about through Amtrak service. 

Given how many years of talking it takes before anything gets done, the only time better than now to start talking would have been the day the International was discontinued.  This agreement may be an interesting model for Amtrak - CSX discussions.  Amtrak is opposing CSX acquisition of Pan Am Railways, but also seeking access on the Gulf Coast and probably elsewhere....perhaps there's some horse trading to be done.

Dave

I would dearly love to believe otherwise. But I think that a through train via the tunnel is and will remain a pipe dream because of the customs and border protection issues -- on both sides of the border. The level of border scrutiny that both nations want today with continuing anti-terrorism and drug trafficking concerns just throws up many difficult issues. And the pandemic has created even more. I think that issues of health checks, vaccination status checks etc. are likely to continue for quite some time into the future as Covid-19 becomes an endemic disease (a statement that may cause a few heads to explode here on TO).

I'm just not sure that Amtrak cares enough or has the management chops to work the issues through satisfactorily, and in a way that passengers will accept. No matter how helpful VIA is for their part. Homeland Security here in the US and the Canada Border Services Agency both swing very, very large and influential bats in each nation's government, and can easily steamroll Amtrak in any bi-lateral or interagency planning process for a reasonable border crossing process. Amtrak is a political pipsqueak and naif by comparison, and will be swatted away like a fly.

It's a nice gesture by CPKC and quite welcome. Thanks to them. But in practical terms, it probably really amounts to a small additional political gesture to help its merger case.

As a resident of Michigan who very much looks forward to travel in nearby Canada, including a lot of miles on VIA as soon as it is really practical once again, I would be very pleased to be totally wrong on all of this. But I'm not hopeful on that score. Sorry.

MC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/22 06:15 by ironmtn.

Speeding up the Adirondack in NY state would be nice, too. The Rouses Point to Albany timing was about 36 mph.

Posted from Android

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Speeding up the Adirondack in NY state would be
> nice, too. The Rouses Point to Albany timing was about 36 mph.

Prioritize the 10 - 20 MPH of CN's rickity track for the mile or so between Rousses Pt and LaColle. 

I wonder what it would take to have a Schengen like agreement between the US and Canada......just come and go as you please....a pipe dream I am sure...but as a Yank driving into Canada....it takes but a few minutes...to get back in the US....they disassemble my car to see if there's anything they can tax me on!

engineerinvirginia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder what it would take to have a Schengen
> like agreement between the US and Canada......just
> come and go as you please....a pipe dream I am
> sure...but as a Yank driving into Canada....it
> takes but a few minutes...to get back in the
> US....they disassemble my car to see if there's
> anything they can tax me on!

Yes, probably a pipe dream. And it wasn't always so, and not so long ago either. When I lived in Detroit some years ago we'd drive "over the river" into Canada on a moment's notice anytime we wanted to do so. No passport needed.  A driver's license was just fine, and sometimes they wouldn't even ask for that. Just what's the reason for your visit, how long will you be staying, anything to declare, thanks and have a nice day. Drive safely, please. Welcome to Canada!

US Customs was a little tougher than Canadian, but it was pretty much down to how many fifths of Canadian Club you were bringing back with you. Other than that, not much more scrutiny. And you never felt that your car was just about to be disassembled.  Or that it would be poked and prodded like the worst visit ever to the proctologist.

It's just a different world now. And not necessarily a better one.

MC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/22 08:41 by ironmtn.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Speeding up the Adirondack in NY state would be
> > nice, too. The Rouses Point to Albany timing
> was about 36 mph.
>
> Prioritize the 10 - 20 MPH of CN's rickity track
> for the mile or so between Rousses Pt and
> LaColle. 

Absolutely.  But CP would not be offering to fix that long standing problem.
 

Too bad Lucien L'Allier station would be such a crappy terminal for this train, or they could stay on CP all the way, including traversing EXO's Candiac commuter line. Of course, that would leave an extended Vermonter to Montreal left out on the cold on CN, coming in 4 miles north at Cantic, QC.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has anyone figure out how they will handle Customs
> ? If it is done as it is at Niagara Falls, not
> even a bus load of passengers, and most days a van
> load, will cross the border and put up with their
> off-train security theatre for two hours. That's
> how the International died. How soon people
> forget. 

Prior to the pandemic we took Amtrak from Vancouver BC to Seattle and a second time to Portland.   No big issues re: customs and immigration at all.  You cleared customs prior to boarding in Vancouver, and the train stopped at the border when immigration came on and only checked passports.  Took five minutes and you're gone.  On the return trip to Vancouver, easiest customs in the world  . . no stop at the border and they checked your passport at the station in Vancouver and you were gone in a couple of minutes.  Of course this was prior to the pandemic and extra regs.
Craig
mcmrailvideos.com
 

It was a while back, but the last cross-border train I took was the Adirondack from Albany to Montreal, and I don't recall being stopped more than 15 minutes for customs.  I haven't done that trip southbound though.

Magellan13

Magellan13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was a while back, but the last cross-border
> train I took was the Adirondack from Albany to
> Montreal, and I don't recall being stopped more
> than 15 minutes for customs.  I haven't done that
> trip southbound though.
>
> Magellan13

The CBSA border stop at Lacolle, QC always takes 1 to 2 hours. I have a time log for every trip I took from 2013 to 2019. Most likely  80 - 90 minutes. We also got an exit stop northbound by US Customs one time in an October taking another 35 minutes of asking everyone the stupid question are you an American citizen. 

Looks like it was 2011 that I did that trip, so that makes sense.  Transborder trips in Europe are commonplace (between Schengen and non-Schengen countries) - how do they process customs stops so quickly there?

Magellan13

One issue with the tunnel is there's no real easy path (without a lot of backing) between the current Detroit Amtrak station and the tunnel, at least for trains coming from the West (Chicago, etc.)
The old Michigan Central station would be "on the way" but that facilty has been disused for years, and would take a lot of work to make it a suitable passenger station again.

Likewise on the Canadian side, the current VIA Windsor station is a stubend near the waterfront, not on the path from the tunnel.
Again, the Michigan Central station in Windsor would have provided direct access to the tunnel, had it not burned down in 1996. 

---