European Railroad Discussion > Another Yank headed to London & Paris.... Railfan Spots?

My wife and I are headed to London this week and Paris next, with a trip on the Chunnel in between. We have a laundry list of touristy places to visit. Are there any good safe easily accessible places in either town? Also, how friendly are they about shooting high speed rail & the Underground?

Regards,
Russ Goodwin
Oakwood, GA

I just finished a year living in London. Railfanning there is totally fine on Underground, Overground or mainline network. In fact you will almost never be alone when railfanning - it's a national pastime (though known as trainspotting)! London is totally safe anywhere you want to go. Paris is a bit rougher around the edges, but safer than most large American cities. Watch out for pickpockets on the Metro in Paris. Just be aware of surroundings if you are in one of the poorer neighborhoods on the oustskirts.

Not sure what you are more interested in - freights, or passenger trains with actual locomotives (as opposed to EMU/DMUs). Almost all passenger trains in UK now are EMU or DMU, with the exceptions I will note below. One thing about London - most overbridges are hard to shoot photos from as the walls usually go up about 5 1/2-6 feet. I carry a short stepstool if I am planning on shooting from bridges. This means that platform ends are usually the easiest, but then you end up with a bunch of platform end photos!

Essential to foaming in UK - assuming you have a smartphone that will have data access over a cel network in UK - download www.realtimetrains.co.uk onto your phone. You can enter any station name or location into the query line and it gives you a real-time lineup of all train movements - freight and passenger - that will pass that point. It comes directly out of the Network Rail dispatch center, so it's 100% accurate. You can drill down and get loco and car information on each train also. In the US you would be arrested for having this info, but here it's everyday.

Locations in London:
Freight activity -
• Freight in London is most concentrated on the North London line, which is served by the Overground network. Best station platforms to shoot from are the junction at Gospel Oak, Caledonian Road & Barnsbury, or Highbury & Islington. Line is elevated so hard to shoot it from other than a platform. Usually 2-3 freights per hour intermixed with all the Overground trains and occasional ECS (empty coaching stock) movements of other operators. 10am-12noon is a good time to hit this line. Freights will be mostly diesel-hauled, but occasional Class 86 electric-hauled.

Loco-hauled passenger trains - not many lines have loco-hauled passenger trains anymore - with these exceptions:
• Liverpool St - Norwich express trains (1x hour) are Class 86 push-pull. Might be able to shoot these from Bethnal Green (wrong side of tracks though) - otherwise you have to go further out, such as to Ilford or Romford.
• Marylebone-Kidderminster - the Chiltern express trains (1x hour) are diesel push-pull hauled, with new Class 89s on the country (down)end. Nice looking trains. Good place to shoot is South Ruislip. Lots of DMUs mixed in. You can also shoot these from a road bridge in Neasden, if you are willing to hoof a little. Go to Neasden on the Jubilee line, cross over to the south side of the tracks near the Tesco supermarket, then go to where the Great Central Way (B4557) goes over the Chiltern line. There is a junction here with a freight line also, so sometimes freights are switching. Good photo location mid-morning and later.

HST 125s - HST 125s still operate on 3 lines - and are the last large scale use of the Mark III coaches.
• Paddington to the west of England - I like to shoot at Slough - good views from all platforms
• St Pancras up the Midland mainline - shoot from Kentish Town or West Hampstead Thameslink
• Kings Cross up the East Coast mainline - shoot from Haringay or Finsbury Park

Interesting mixes of trains.
• South Kenton on the West Coast mainline - Overground out of Euston or Bakerloo line. Go to this station, leave the west side of the station, then walk through Northwick Park just to the north of the station. At the north end of the park is a footbridge over the tracks where you can shoot from - very good photo location. This is the West Coast mainline (WCML), plus the Overground, plus the Underground, and the Metropolitan Line and the Chiltern Line go over the WCML just north of the footbridge, so there is constant activity - often 2 or 3 trains visible at once, with trains under and over very frequently. Better light in the late afternoon.
• South Hampstead Station - some of the same mix of trains, but very different environment - Here the WCML tracks and the Overground, plus some North London line freights, are just popping out of the tunnels under Primrose Hill. The Chiltern line trains go perpendicularly across the top of the tunnels. If you stand on the steps to the northbound Overground platform (next to the WCML), you can get shots of all the trains popping out of the Primrose Hill tunnels, plus the occasional Chiltern DMU going right over top. It's very bizarre but fun. And from that set of steps you can see back through the tunnel that the freight trains use, so you'll have a lot of warning of approaching freights.

The Southern – Lines south of the Thames were all the former Southern Railway, which is an intensive EMU service with intricate network of lines, junctions, and services. Very much like Long Island RR, only way more intensive. This is all third-rail territory, so you don’t have the issues of too many overhead wires! Downside is all trains look the same except for paint scheme, and very few freights mixed in, except if you get to the southwest near the ports of Southhampton or Portsamouth.
• Clapham Junction – a must-see location – something like 18 platforms, with trains coming and going constantly on the Southern, Southwest Trains, and the Overgound. The mainline heading east from here toward Victoria and Waterloo is something like 12 tracks wide – gives you an idea of the number of train movements. Claims to be the busiest train station in the world – not sure if that’s true or not. Lots of good photo locations from platform ends, especially on the east end.
• Pick-any-Junction – Norwood Junction, East Croydon
• Footbridges along the Southern lines over the tracks tend not to have high walls, so you can shoot from these often. If you are going somewhere, do a little Google Earth research to see if there is a likely overbridge. I found one in Putney, but nothing special about it.

If you PM me I'll give you my phone number (California) if you want to chat.

Excellent set of info. Minor technicality - class 90s on the Norwich expresses from Liverpool St. Depending on your capacity for discomfort I would recommend a high peal journey on the London Underground. Only then can you see and feel quite how busy it is and, especially on the Victoria line understand quite how frequent the trains are. The current timetable is done to the 5 second limit; nothing else like it here and pretty rare anywhere. 36 trains an hour in the very busiest period, about enough time to walk from one end of the platform to the other.

Forgot to mention - on the Underground, there are basically 2 overlapping technologies. The oldest lines are the "sub-surface" lines, such as the Metropolitan, Circle, District, and Hammersmith & City lines. These lines are built (more or less) to mainline railroad clearances (for the UK), and have larger profile vehicles. The newer lines are the "deep tube" lines, such as the Jubilee, Bakerloo, Northern, Victoria, Central, and Piccadilly lines. As their name implies - they are built generally much deeper than the subsurface lines, and are much smaller profile vehicles. Photo opportunities are often best on the subsurface lines, as they have more mileage on the surface. In some places tracks are shared between these technologies and various elements of the mainline rail network. Then there's the Docklands Light Rail, which is an automated, medium capacity system. In my opinion - it was somewhat of a mistake - the loads are starting to overwhelm the technology, as much of the new development is going in in the Docklands area, and DLR is too light on capacity for the need.

Oyster card - get yourself an Oyster Card as soon as you can. You will need it to ride buses - there are no cash fares on the buses anymore - only Oyster. You can also use Oyster on Underground, Overground, DLR and the mainline rail operator suburban services within the London fare zones. You get much better deals if you are using Oyster than if you are paying cash for each train ride, because if you are using the system a lot to ride around you will hit the daily cap on Oyster, and then every additional ride within the same fare zones is essentially free. Buy at any tube or rail station, or most newsstands (which they still have in London).

If you plan a trip to Oxford and go from Paddington you will pass Didcot Parkway which is home to the http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/ and (on weekdays) is also a bit of a hub for passing freight. Just make sure the train you catch stops at Didcot.

You can also go from Marylebone to Oxford and that route passes Bicester Shopping Village - an outlet place with quite a lot of "luxury" brands.

The nearest equivalent to Clapham Junction on the east side of London is Stratford but it's not as busy and it's not the most photography friendly layout.

GETTING AROUND LONDON.

Oyster cards are the way to go BUT don't be fooled into using them everywhere. In the centre of the city stations on the same line are often only a few minutes walk apart - it simply isn't worth getting the tube http://content.tfl.gov.uk/walking-tube-map.pdf. It's also the case between quite a few stations not on the same line http://content.tfl.gov.uk/walking-tube-map-journey-times.pdf. Always remember that the tube map is not a map but a diagram so what looks like a long walk can be just around the corner on foot (and vv).

Buy an A-Z (name of the publishing company) map - there are several versions covering different scales and areas of London in the form of paperback books. They list every street, station, museum, theatre, site/sight etc.

A steam rr that's a very easy London day trip is http://www.watercressline.co.uk/. You can get there by train, as they share a station with mainline trains.

I got a bit of attention on Paddington station some years ago (2005),when I produced my camera.It was totally fine with the ''bobby'' after he realised I was from Australia,and a rail fan.We talked for a good hour about things railroad related.Real nice chap.
Regards,DK

NSTopHat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My wife and I are headed to London this week and
> Paris next, with a trip on the Chunnel in between.
> We have a laundry list of touristy places to
> visit. Are there any good safe easily accessible
> places in either town? Also, how friendly are they
> about shooting high speed rail & the Underground?
>
> Regards,
> Russ Goodwin
> Oakwood, GA

Be careful about taking photos in train stations. I was no-so-politely asked to refrain from photography at St Lazare in Paris when I was there a few weeks ago.

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NSTopHat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My wife and I are headed to London this week
> and
> > Paris next, with a trip on the Chunnel in
> between.
> > We have a laundry list of touristy places to
> > visit. Are there any good safe easily
> accessible
> > places in either town? Also, how friendly are
> they
> > about shooting high speed rail & the
> Underground?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Russ Goodwin
> > Oakwood, GA
>
> Be careful about taking photos in train stations.
> I was no-so-politely asked to refrain from
> photography at St Lazare in Paris when I was there
> a few weeks ago.

Beware of the French in general... ;-) Did i just say that?! It's ok, i'm English so it's allowed...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/17 11:45 by exhaustED.

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ATSF3751 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > NSTopHat Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > My wife and I are headed to London this week
> > and
> > > Paris next, with a trip on the Chunnel in
> > between.
> > > We have a laundry list of touristy places to
> > > visit. Are there any good safe easily
> > accessible
> > > places in either town? Also, how friendly are
> > they
> > > about shooting high speed rail & the
> > Underground?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Russ Goodwin
> > > Oakwood, GA
> >
> > Be careful about taking photos in train
> stations.
> > I was no-so-politely asked to refrain from
> > photography at St Lazare in Paris when I was
> there
> > a few weeks ago.
>
> Beware of the French in general... ;-) Did i just
> say that?! It's ok, i'm English so it's allowed...

LOL, well, in general, I found the French people to be polite. Parisians can be a bit brusk, but no worse then Romans or New Yorkers.

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> exhaustED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ATSF3751 Wrote:

> > >
> > > Be careful about taking photos in train
> > stations.
> > > I was no-so-politely asked to refrain from
> > > photography at St Lazare in Paris when I was
> > there
> > > a few weeks ago.
> >
> > Beware of the French in general... ;-) Did i
> just
> > say that?! It's ok, i'm English so it's
> allowed...
>
> LOL, well, in general, I found the French people
> to be polite. Parisians can be a bit brusk, but no
> worse then Romans or New Yorkers.

Fair comments!

NSTopHat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My wife and I are headed to London this week and
> Paris next, with a trip on the Chunnel in between.
> We have a laundry list of touristy places to
> visit. Are there any good safe easily accessible
> places in either town? Also, how friendly are they
> about shooting high speed rail & the Underground?
>
> Regards,
> Russ Goodwin
> Oakwood, GA

I haven't been to Paris for a couple of years but last time I was there I spent an enjoyable couple of hours at Villeneuve St Georges, which is on the former PLM mainline alongside the River Seine east of Gare de Lyon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/17 23:49 by 86235.

In general most people in both France and England are aware of the strange breed of men called train spotters, and will allow them to do whatever they want in peace. I suspect that at most railway premises the major security concerns are regarding preventing graffiti rather than so-called "terror", and hence at busy stations there will rarely be a problem. This might make sense in terms of actual risks and probabilities.