European Railroad Discussion > FS "Dome"

Way back in the day, I was a sailor in Uncle Sam's Navy. The Navy saw fit to station me aboard a ship in Italy for my first tour of duty. Most kids fresh out of boot camp do not want to be stationed overseas so that they can be closer to family stateside, me included.

But, when I thought about it, I figured the plus side would be trains. Lots of them! I was stationed in the small town of Gaeta, halfway between Rome and Naples. 10 miles away was the FS (Italian State Railway) main line. Cab to Formia, and we would be off to Naples or Rome or points beyond.

My mind is pretty foggy after 35 years, but I think this was taken in Naples in the spring of 1983. I was not and am not now knowledgeable about European train other than I took lots of Kodachrome shots over two years. I called the shot an FS "dome" as it kind of reminded me of the SP 3/4 domes. Enjoy!

Regards,
Burlington John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/17 18:11 by burlingtonjohn.

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That is one interesting looking car.  I hope someone in TO Land can tell us something about the inside of that car, and explain that window pattern.  

ʎɹɹɐl

Not a dome - standard European double-deck suburban coach, usually with 3-2 seating. The slanted "dome" appearance of the windows from the outside allows the double deck car to fit within the European loading gauge, which is smaller then the US loading gauge, requiring slanted sides at the top to fit the gauge.

It's a cab car too, the cab being at the other end.

https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrozza_a_due_piani_tipo_1979#/media/File%3ADUEPIANI-Udine-06-97.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/17 22:46 by 86235.

Thanks for the photo. Do you have others?

86235 Wrote:
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> It's a cab car too, the cab being at the other
> end.
>
> https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrozza_a_due_pia
> ni_tipo_1979#/media/File%3ADUEPIANI-Udine-06-97.jp
> g

So was this operated as a push pull car like North American practice?  If so, what kind of locomotive would have provided the push?

march_hare Wrote:
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> So was this operated as a push pull car like North
> American practice?  If so, what kind of
> locomotive would have provided the push?

Yes, motive power would probably have been something like this E646

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march_hare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 86235 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's a cab car too, the cab being at the other
> > end.
> >
> >
> https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrozza_a_due_pia
>
> >
> ni_tipo_1979#/media/File%3ADUEPIANI-Udine-06-97.jp
>
> > g
>
> So was this operated as a push pull car like North
> American practice?  If so, what kind of
> locomotive would have provided the push?

In the last few years unfortunately (for some) many if not most conventional locomotive passenger operations in Western Europe have been converted to push-pull operation, while even more have been replaced by multiple units. In the UK we no longer have any conventional passenger operations at all, while there is mere handful of trains with cab cars at one end and a loco at the other. This is the same on the continent, both for local trains and InterCity operations. Inevitably this is more efficient, and the great surprise is that it didn't happen sooner. The principal difference between North American and European cab cars are the usual attempt by the latter to have some form of styling to look more like a locomotive front-end.

In Italy, there has been construction of a huge number of locomotives for regional services (Type E464 - their largest single class ever, still being delivered, picture attached) which are single-ended simply because of the provision of controls at the other end of the trade, and the resulting semi-permanent coupling of train and engine. It would seem that we have seen the last of the double ended high-speed passenger loco.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/17 04:26 by spflow.

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spflow Wrote:
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> In the UK we no longer
> have any conventional passenger operations at all,
> while there is mere handful of trains with cab
> cars at one end and a loco at the other.

With the exception of the two Caledonian sleepers and the Night Riviera of course. And CAF are delivering new sleeper stock for Scotland and new loco hauled passenger stock for TPE services across the Pennines.

86235 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> spflow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In the UK we no longer
> > have any conventional passenger operations at
> all,
> > while there is mere handful of trains with cab
> > cars at one end and a loco at the other.
>
> With the exception of the two Caledonian sleepers
> and the Night Riviera of course. And CAF are
> delivering new sleeper stock for Scotland and new
> loco hauled passenger stock for TPE services
> across the Pennines.

Good point, but in total the sleepers must be much less than 1% of our passenger operations (approx 3000 train-miles per day), and will the TPE services have traditional loco run rounds at each end of the journey?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/17 11:53 by spflow.

spflow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 86235 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > spflow Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > In the UK we no longer
> > > have any conventional passenger operations at
> > all,
> > > while there is mere handful of trains with
> cab
> > > cars at one end and a loco at the other.
> >
> > With the exception of the two Caledonian
> sleepers
> > and the Night Riviera of course. And CAF are
> > delivering new sleeper stock for Scotland and
> new
> > loco hauled passenger stock for TPE services
> > across the Pennines.
>
> Good point, but in total the sleepers must be much
> less than 1% of our passenger operations (approx
> 3000 train-miles per day), and will the TPE
> services have traditional loco run rounds at each
> end of the journey?

No the TPE will be push pull, but with a conventional locomotive, class 68s are being turned out in TPE livery. Given the changes in the infrastructure there are precious few places where locomotives can run round, even if there were groundstaff available to couple / uncouple. In reality there are still a reasonable number of non MU trains in Britain, all Virgin East Coast are strictly speaking loco hauled, they're certainly not MUs; EMT, GWR and XC all use non-MU rolling stock. Admittedly they are HSTs which have a class 43 locomotive at each end. Then there's AGA with their class 90/Mk 3s shuttling between Norwich and Liverpool Street, ATW with their two train sets operating out of Holyhead and of course Chiltern and their Silver Sets. Admittedly this is all set to change with the influx of new trains in East Anglia and on GWR and Virgin East Coast. At least the redundant HSTs will see further service in Scotland, replacing DMUs. Plus ca change.

cricketer8for9 Wrote:
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> Thanks for the photo. Do you have others?

I do. As I sort through a long neglected stack of slides, I'll scan and post as time permits.

Regards,
Burlington John