European Railroad Discussion > Swiss ID & info help needed

Greetings from the good ol’ USA! Some of my railfan cousins other there across the big pond may have seen my TO screen name, especially as it is attached our ongoing WAG Wednesday project in the Nostalgia forum. Within the scanning & archiving of the massive Gibson collection I have also been scanning other slides acquired from various sources, such as trader slides & (partial) collection inheritance situations. I have just finished scanning about 350 original slides taken mostly in the 50s & 60s by the late Dr (DDS) RR Gouldner, that now reside in the Art Gibson collection.

The good doctor Gouldner was a bit lax in providing complete date, location and other pertinent, descriptive detail for his slides. I’ve been able to fill quite a few gaps just by having paid attention to general railfan photography around my country in the past 40+ years. But here’s a shot I hope to get some local information about in Switzerland. The only description attached to the box covering the 50s-era plastic tray holding this & a few other similar slides is: “Lucerne” followed by “Rigi ~ Pilatus”. I found both names in the Lucerne area after looking at Google Maps. I’m thinking Dr Gouldner was on vacation in Switzerland and came home with a few slides of this electric operation. Looking at the scanned image I can identify the car as “ARB 13”, which I assume are the reporting marks & number?

I would like to know anything at all about this car & the railroad entity that ran it. Many thanks in advance. And if no new information is forthcoming I hope you enjoy this image that is probably older than I am at 62…

1. ARB 13 (?) at the Rigi ~ Staffel Inn (?) in Rigi (?), Switzerland.
Anscochrome slide by the late Dr RR Gouldner, probably in the mid ~ late 1950s.
From the Art Gibson (WAG Jr) collection.

Thanks for looking back!
Lance Garrels (santafe199)
Art Gibson (wag216) … in honor of the good doctor



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/18 16:11 by santafe199.

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That's a car on the mountain cog railway between Arth-Goldau and Rigi Kulm. The station is just below the top of the mountain, the "Kulm." The railroad now is the Rigi Bahnen. The track in front of the car is the cog railway from Vitznau. Apparently there is now joint ownership of the two lines. Perhaps the original name of the ARB was the Arth-Goldau Rigi Bahnen. This is in central Switzerland near Lake Lucerne.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/18 19:21 by Jimbo.

I'm over here on this side of the pond with you but I might be able to help. That's the Arth-Rigi Bahn, one of two railways which climb 5,748 foot Mount Rigi near Lucerne. The other railway is the Vitznau-Rigi Bahn, which comes from the other side of the mountain and meets up with the Arth-Rigi Bahn here at Staffel (that's the train station) which is close to the summit. The Arth-Rigi Bahn is a rack railway, I think the earliest in Europe. You can see the rack in the middle of the track in the foreground. This is a beautiful ride that I did back in the 1980s (I'm also 62). Every bit of the ride is beautiful and the view from the top is awesome. The Pilatus is another mountain outside Lucerne that is climbed by another rack railway. Thanks for the memories!

Steve Hawks

It's still active, albeit in a new livery (I liked the old one better though). Built 1954.

https://www.rigi.ch/Information/Bergbahnen/Rigi-Bahnen/Ueber-die-RIGI-BAHNEN-AG/Bergbahnen/Wagenpark/Triebfahrzeug-Nr.-13

(Page in German)

Posted from Android

Many thanks for the info, guys! Very helpful. It looks like the good doctor picked a really nice spot on the globe to vacation in! And now that I look closer at the (ahem) "Inn" in the background I can see details that look more like a RR station than an Inn or Hotel...

Lance/199

It came to my mind that I've been there some time ago... and there she is, in the lower left corner, at the Rigi Kulm (summit) station! Enjoy! (Photo taken November 17 2015.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/18 09:48 by sys3175.

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Spectacular view! It must be something to live in a place like that and be "forced" to look at all that scenery...

;^)

I know electric trains last, but nice to know it’s still going around 60 years since the photo was taken

cricketer8for9 Wrote:
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> I know electric trains last, but nice to know
> it’s still going around 60 years since the photo
> was taken

That might be a Swiss thing. To get to the Vitznau station from Lucern I took a paddle wheel steamboat that was over 70 years old, but looked like it just came from the factory. Ran like a Swiss watch and you could eat off any surface.

Jimbo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a car on the mountain cog railway between
> Arth-Goldau and Rigi Kulm. The station is just
> below the top of the mountain, the "Kulm." The
> railroad now is the Rigi Bahen.

Bahnen

railsmith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jimbo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's a car on the mountain cog railway
> between
> > Arth-Goldau and Rigi Kulm. The station is just
> > below the top of the mountain, the "Kulm." The
> > railroad now is the Rigi Bahen.
>
> Bahnen

Yes. Typo, now corrected.

santafe199 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The good doctor Gouldner was a bit lax in
> providing complete date, location and other
> pertinent, descriptive detail for his slides.
> I’ve been able to fill quite a few gaps just by
> having paid attention to general railfan
> photography around my country in the past 40+
> years. But here’s a shot I hope to get some
> local information about in Switzerland. The only
> description attached to the box covering the
> 50s-era plastic tray holding this & a few other
> similar slides is: “Lucerne” followed by
> “Rigi ~ Pilatus”. I found both names in the
> Lucerne area after looking at Google Maps. I’m
> thinking Dr Gouldner was on vacation in
> Switzerland and came home with a few slides of
> this electric operation. Looking at the scanned
> image I can identify the car as “ARB 13”,
> which I assume are the reporting marks & number?
>
> I would like to know anything at all about this
> car & the railroad entity that ran it. Many thanks
> in advance. And if no new information is
> forthcoming I hope you enjoy this image that is
> probably older than I am at 62…
>
> 1. ARB 13 (?) at the Rigi ~ Staffel Inn (?) in
> Rigi (?), Switzerland.
> Anscochrome slide by the late Dr RR Gouldner,
> probably in the mid ~ late 1950s.
> From the Art Gibson (WAG Jr) collection.
>
> Thanks for looking back!
> Lance Garrels (santafe199)
> Art Gibson (wag216) … in honor of the good
> doctor

The car was built in 1954 for the Arth Rigi Bahn by Schweizerische Lokomotiv und Maschinenfabrik, Winterthur with electrical equipment by SA des Ateliers de Sécheron, Gèneve both now part of Bombardier.

The Vitnau Rigi Bahn was completed first from Vitznau on the Vierwaldstattersee(Lake of the 4 Forest Cantons), sometimes incorrectly called Lake Lucerne, to the summit at Rigi Kulm station. The VRB was the second rack railway in the world when it was completed in May 21st, 1871. It was preceded only by the Mount Washington Cog Railway in New Hampshire, USA completed in 1869. The Arth Rigi Bahn was chartered just before the VRB but took longer to contruct. The situation of Rigi Staffel station is interesting as it lies exactly on the border between the Canton of Luzern, and the Canton of Schwyz. The summit at Rigi Kulm is in the Canton of Schwyz. The VRB was chartered in Luzern and the ARB in Schwyz. The VRB reached Rigi Staffel first but the only possible ROW from there to Rigi Kulm was owned by the ARB. The two companies reached an agreement where the VRB would build the railway at its expense and then lease the rights to operate over it from the ARB. The ARB was originally a much longer railway as when built it ran passed the location of the current Arth Goldau Station(which is in the town of Goldau) to the town of Arth on der See on the shores of the Zuggersee(Lake Zug) the line was cut back when it became obvious that the majority of the passengers would originate at the station on the Gotthardbahn. The two companies came under common control in the 1930's, and were merged in 1992.

There are three open air cars built in 1937 for the VRB maintained as Historic stock and used on summer weekends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/18 19:38 by SOO6617.

SOO6617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> santafe199 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The good doctor Gouldner was a bit lax in
> > providing complete date, location and other
> > pertinent, descriptive detail for his slides.
> > I’ve been able to fill quite a few gaps just
> by
> > having paid attention to general railfan
> > photography around my country in the past 40+
> > years. But here’s a shot I hope to get some
> > local information about in Switzerland. The
> only
> > description attached to the box covering the
> > 50s-era plastic tray holding this & a few other
> > similar slides is: “Lucerne” followed by
> > “Rigi ~ Pilatus”. I found both names in the
> > Lucerne area after looking at Google Maps.
> I’m
> > thinking Dr Gouldner was on vacation in
> > Switzerland and came home with a few slides of
> > this electric operation. Looking at the scanned
> > image I can identify the car as “ARB 13”,
> > which I assume are the reporting marks &
> number?
> >
> > I would like to know anything at all about this
> > car & the railroad entity that ran it. Many
> thanks
> > in advance. And if no new information is
> > forthcoming I hope you enjoy this image that is
> > probably older than I am at 62…
> >
> > 1. ARB 13 (?) at the Rigi ~ Staffel Inn (?) in
> > Rigi (?), Switzerland.
> > Anscochrome slide by the late Dr RR Gouldner,
> > probably in the mid ~ late 1950s.
> > From the Art Gibson (WAG Jr) collection.
> >
> > Thanks for looking back!
> > Lance Garrels (santafe199)
> > Art Gibson (wag216) … in honor of the good
> > doctor
>
> The car was built in 1954 for the Arth Rigi Bahn
> by Schweizerische Lokomotiv und Maschinenfabrik,
> Winterthur with electrical equipment by SA des
> Ateliers de Sécheron, Gèneve both now part of
> Bombardier.
>
> The Vitnau Rigi Bahn was completed first from
> Vitznau on the Vierwaldstattersee(Lake of the 4
> Forest Cantons), sometimes incorrectly called Lake
> Lucerne, to the summit at Rigi Kulm station. The
> VRB was the second rack railway in the world when
> it was completed in May 21st, 1871. It was
> preceeded only by the Mount Washington Cog Railway
> in New Hampshire, USA completed in 1869. The Arth
> Rigi Bahn was chartered just before the VRB but to
> longer to contruct. The situation of Rigi Staffel
> station is interesting as it lies exactly on the
> border between the Canton of Luzern, and the
> Canton of Schwyz. The summit at Rigi Kulm is in
> the Canton of Schwyz. The VRB was chartered in
> Luzern and the ARB in Schwyz. The VRB reached Rigi
> Staffel first but only possible ROW from there to
> Rigi Kulm was owned by the ARB. The two companies
> reached an agreement where the VRB would build the
> railway at its expense and then lease the rights
> to operate over it from the ARB. The ARB was
> originally a much longer railway as when built it
> ran passed the location of the current Arth Goldau
> Station(which is in the town of Goldau) to the
> town of Arth on der See on the shores of the
> Zuggersee(Lake Zug) the line was cut back when it
> became obvious that the majority of the passengers
> would originate at the station on the
> Gotthardbahn. The two companies came under common
> control in the 1930's, and were merged in 1992.
>
> There are three open air cars built in 1937 for
> the VRB maintained as Historic stock and used on
> summer weekends.


Amazing stuff! Many thanks!

We have visited the Rigi a few times over the last few decades. It is a very interesting "cube" of a mountain at the extreme north edge of the Alps with great views in all directions, presiding over the north end of the Vierwaldstattersee (Lake Lucerne). It has quite a few residential and agricultural locations, (like much of Switzerland)is rather manicured and sanitised, but still quite attractive.

The rack and pinion railways are of note in being of standard gauge. The former ARB runs up from the east where it meets the St Gotthard mainline at Arth-Goldau, while the VRB comes up from the lake at Vitznau. There is also a luftseilbahn (aerial cable car) from the lake at Weggis up to Rigi Kaltbach.

Pictures from 2010:

1. Arth-Goldau station

2. Rigi Staffel, where the two lines meet. We are descending from the summit and heading right towards Vitznau.

3. On board a VRB train (with milk churns).

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More pics from 2010

4. Typical Rigi inhabitants

5. Passing point on the way up the ARB

6. Typical view

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santafe199 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many thanks for the info, guys! Very helpful. It
> looks like the good doctor picked a really nice
> spot on the globe to vacation in! And now that I
> look closer at the (ahem) "Inn" in the background
> I can see details that look more like a RR station
> than an Inn or Hotel...
>
> Lance/199

But the Swiss have always been very good at combining the two!

Here's a picture from Filisur, a junction station on the Rhatische Bahn in SE Switzerland.

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And here are just a couple of pics from 2017 all at Vitznau:

1. Old and older

2. Battery loco shunting a (replica?) carriage

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And finally, a video of a rack steam loco going back into the shed.

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Amazes me how a steam powered rack locomotive works. The pistons are driving the rack gear, and the wheels or just the rack? Also, how do you keep the crown sheet covered with water when it is at the shop like you showed us?

Beautiful photos all of you who posted.

CPRR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amazes me how a steam powered rack locomotive
> works. The pistons are driving the rack gear, and
> the wheels or just the rack? Also, how do you keep
> the crown sheet covered with water when it is at
> the shop like you showed us?

Usually they drive both and so the rack wheel has to be the same size as the drivers. Of course on a pure rack railway, especially the steepest ones, only the rack wheel needs to be powered.

As far as the boiler water is concerned the tilt of the boiler is an average so that while the water lever is low and needs watching, it can be done safely.