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European Railroad Discussion > Italy Side Stacker 741 class


Date: 01/26/19 09:28
Italy Side Stacker 741 class
Author: gregscholl

These were from visits to Italy in 1974.  Fortezza-San Candido line.  Am looking for a brief description of what these Crosti boiler engines were all about.
Definately different! Basically these 741 class pulled freight and passenger trains along with 740 class on this line.  Both are 2-8-0's. These three are all upgrade headed to San Candido in 1974.
Greg Scholl
http://www.gregschollvideo.com
 








Date: 01/26/19 09:46
Re: Italy Side Stacker 741 class
Author: Tominde

That has to be one of the craziest steam engines I've seen.   So why the side stack?   I'm sure engineers loved that.



Date: 01/26/19 10:57
Re: Italy Side Stacker 741 class
Author: Ray_Murphy

Look up the design as "Franco-Crosti boiler" and you will find explanations. They were used in Germany, too (Eisenbahn Kurier Verlag has a book about them).

Ray



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/19 10:58 by Ray_Murphy.



Date: 01/26/19 12:28
Re: Italy Side Stacker 741 class
Author: boejoe

Ray must have a vested interest in Google Search or Wikipedia to ask that we look it up - LOL



Date: 01/26/19 13:31
Re: Italy Side Stacker 741 class
Author: gregscholl

boejoe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ray must have a vested interest in Google Search
> or Wikipedia to ask that we look it up - LOL

Actually I looked it up and didn't fully understand the reasoning or
how it actually worked or benefited the engine that much.  Was look for a semplified
answer I guess!  It's not an engine that Lima cranked out that's for sure!!!
Greg



Date: 01/26/19 19:39
Re: Italy Side Stacker 741 class
Author: airbrakegeezer

gregscholl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> boejoe Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ray must have a vested interest in Google
> Search
> > or Wikipedia to ask that we look it up - LOL
>
> Actually I looked it up and didn't fully
> understand the reasoning or
> how it actually worked or benefited the engine
> that much.  Was look for a semplified
> answer I guess!  It's not an engine that Lima
> cranked out that's for sure!!!
> Greg

Basically, it's the same principle as the Elesco, Worthington, Coffin, ACFI, and any other feedwater heaters; it offers a way to use some of the heat otherwise wasted in the exhaust up the stack. The Franco-Crosti tank below the locomotive boiler is a larger version of the Elesco "bundle" (which was usually located on the upper front of, or partially buried in, the smokebox, or on the pilot deck). It is larger because it needs enough capcity to admit both exhaust steam from the cylinders and hot gases from the smokebox, while the other types of feedwater heater only used exhaust steam. The Franco-Crosti boiler has a side stack because the hot gases flow from the smokebox down to the front of the heater tank, then backward through the flues in the heater, and out through the side stack which is connected to the rear of the heater tank. Meanwhile, the cold water from the tender flows forward through the body of the heater tank, capturing heat from the steam and exhaust gases before being fed to the boiler. In theory, this greatly increased the efficiency of the locomotive, thus reducing fuel usage and cost. In practice, not so much. British Railways had a group of the Class 9F 2-10-0s built with Franco-Crosti boilers, and ran a series of tests to compare them with conventional-boilered 9Fs, eventually concluding that the small fuel savings obtained were less than the additional manufacturing and maintenance costs incurred.

The above is a simplified version of the explanation given to me by my father about 67 years ago, when I first saw a picture of one of these "odd ducks". Dad was an old steam man, and probably knew more about locomotives of any type than even Wes Camp. He has been gone over 30 years now (would have been 110 years old if he were still living!), and I still miss him;
this is one small tribute to his knowledge and love of railroading.

I hope this helps, Greg; I must say that your excellent films/videos have provided me (and Dad) with many, many hours of happy viewing. Thanks!

Roger Lewis (airbrakegeezer) 



Date: 01/27/19 08:46
Re: Italy Side Stacker 741 class
Author: gregscholl

Thanks Roger for the explanation.  I think I understand the differences now, and how to do a brief explanation when we show the movies we will be offering in a dvd later this year.  Am posting a bit more Italy in a new post.
Greg
http://www.gregschollvideo.com



Date: 01/27/19 15:05
Re: Italy Side Stacker 741 class
Author: King_Coal

Certainly unique to this fan. Thanks for sharing.



Date: 01/27/19 19:09
Re: Italy Side Stacker 741 class
Author: gregscholl

King_Coal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Certainly unique to this fan. Thanks for sharing.
I agree.  Certainly not the Belle of the ball, but unique and something I had never seen before and never since.
I remember in the years after this stuff was shot I did several club programs, and several folks found these quite interesting.
This section of Italy is the Tyrol region which is dual language since its in the north close to Austria.  Super clean area and lots
of neat "Features" as my brother likes to say"  Here is one such place near Brunico. Two scenes without a winder(motor drive).  Old Minolta SR101 I believe.  Seems I brightened the second one more than the first.  Photographically a lot going on at this place!!
Greg






Date: 01/27/19 19:34
Re: Italy Side Stacker 741 class
Author: Steinzeit2

These Crosti 741's with the preheater below the boiler first appeared in 1955;  they were preceded by the 743 class which were first rebuilt in 1940, continuing postwar, and which had the preheater split between two drums, one on each side of the boiler -- see photos 1 and 2 for views of both sides.  It is the 743 class that are more properly referred to as Franco-Crosti's, I believe.

Both classes were converted from the conventional 740 class [ see photo 3 ], of which 470 were built in 1911-1923.  I think the conversions kept their original running numbers, ie 740.xyz becoming 741. or 743.xyz.

Best regards, SZ

Edited to correct transposed 741 vs 743.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/19 06:12 by Steinzeit2.








Date: 01/28/19 08:16
Re: Italy Side Stacker 741 class
Author: gregscholl

Yes that is correct I believe.  Nice shots of the 743.  This was the type of engine used in "Von Ryan's Express" with Frank Sinatra,  Trevor Howard, etc.
(1 and 2 on a freight), and third at San Candido I believe in passenger service. March 1975.

We did shoot some 740 class, as they and the 741 were all that worked to San Candido line.  Here are a couple 740's.
Copyright Greg Scholl
 








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