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European Railroad Discussion > German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train


Date: 02/04/19 08:10
German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: gregscholl

Okay, Mr. Mott....I see your 1966 images and raise you a few more from 1974.
(1) Military train in summer of 1974 on the grade from Hartmanshof.  I believe the train was fro Nuremburg heading to Weiden.  We got a German one and an American one, plus a couple others on that trip.  This image is not the greatest, losing something in my photoshopping.  Have movies of some of this stuff also for future use.

(2) Here is a doubleheader 2-10-0's on a heavy Ballast train running between Lauda and Crailsheim, also in 1974.  The train is past Neiderstetten where there was a station and a tunnel, followed by this grade.

(3) The station agent proudly showed us his relic from WW2.  These were generally placed on the smokebox of German steam engines.  The station agent told us he generally walked through the tunnel to get to work at the station.  One day he tripped on something and it was this.  He stated that when the allies were advancing on the area, likely the engine crew dumped the eagle inside the tunnel, so they would not be throught of as hardcore Nazi's.

A side note was that were there approx 30 years after war.  One of the mornings we stayed in Lauda at a Gasthaus, we were sitting at the downstairs bar/lunch room, and started talking to a German patron.  He was reading the daily paper.  Upon learning we were Americans, he turned the page of the paper and showed us a B&W photo of rubble where 30 years ago Wurzburg had been bombed.  He looked at us sternly and stated "Americana do this".  I paused for a moment and stated..."Hey Hitler started it".  I have always been interested in WW2 history so these experiences always stuck with me.
Greg Scholl








Date: 02/04/19 10:10
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: gbmott

Nice!  I'll keep 'em coming if you will.



Date: 02/04/19 11:42
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: 1019X

Very interesting photos, keep them coming. I was thinking that I had read once that public display of the Nazi Swastika was prohibited in Germany.



Date: 02/04/19 14:36
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: boejoe

I found the German's remark about the bombing of Wurzburg to be interesting.  Whenever I had an opportunity to talk with a German national and WWII came up in conversation, these men who were in the war, always fought on the Russian Front.  Not one of them faced off against Americans, British, French or other western allies...



Date: 02/04/19 16:04
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: PHall

1019X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very interesting photos, keep them coming. I was
> thinking that I had read once that public display
> of the Nazi Swastika was prohibited in Germany.

It still is.



Date: 02/04/19 18:41
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: schaffner

The Lok in the first photo is a BR 44, a heavy 2-10-0 with three cylinders. They were known as the "Jumbos", pronounced as "Yumbos".

The one in the second photo is a BR 52, the famous "Kriegslok", a "War Locomotive"

Jim Maurer



Date: 02/04/19 19:05
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: tomstp

Good or you Greg, he had it coming.



Date: 02/04/19 19:57
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: Steinzeit2

schaffner Wrote:
>
> The one in the second photo is a BR 52, the famous
> "Kriegslok", a "War Locomotive"
>
> Jim Maurer

No, it's a 50 -- 50 2890 with the computer number.  52's were long gone by the computer era [ which nominally began 1/1/68 ].  In the same vein, 42's, the heavier brother of the 52, had disappeared also, so 042 was used for oil-fired 41's.

SZ

 



Date: 02/04/19 20:04
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: gregscholl

Steinzeit2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> schaffner Wrote:
> >
> > The one in the second photo is a BR 52, the
> famous
> > "Kriegslok", a "War Locomotive"
> >
> > Jim Maurer
>
> No, it's a 50 -- 50 2890 with the computer
> number.  52's were long gone by the computer era
> [ which nominally began 1/1/68 ].  In the same
> vein, 42's, the heavier brother of the 52, had
> disappeared also, so 042 was used for oil-fired
> 41's.
>
> SZ
>
>  

I was not aware of this, and always thought they were the engines from the war (052 that is).  However I did think the ones with whalebottom tenders (052 like in Austria were original).  So I have seen notes that state BR 50, BR 44, etc.  What does BR stand for?
Greg



Date: 02/04/19 20:18
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: Krokodil

BR stands for ‘Baureihe’ or type (class) of engine. The BR numbers were assigned from 01 -99, from heavy pacifics to narrow gauge engines. Yes the Austrian BR were original BR52 engines and still could be found active in the mid seventies. Some had the Giesl ejector type stack. The BR52 survived much longer in former East Germany, they were rebuilt with improved boilers. After unification of Germany quite a few found a home in tourist rail operations in the western part and are still active today.

Thomas Eckhardt
Hurricane Utah



Date: 02/05/19 04:21
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: Keystone1

I saw in a catalog about ten years ago, a company was offering repro’s of these made of aluminum.



Date: 02/05/19 17:01
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: Ray_Murphy

I've mentioned this here at TO before:  the German federal eagle locomotive decoration in Picture #3 was referred to by some in pre-war Germany as the "Pleitegeier" (a cartoon figure whose name translates as "The Vulture of Bankruptcy").

Ray



Date: 02/05/19 20:34
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: Bunny218

Replica's of the Eagle emblem are indeed available for purchase today. I noticed that the original post said this emblem was placed on the smoke box, can anyone on here verify if that is correct? As far as I know, it was not on the smoke box but was usually mounted on the side of the cab. I've also often wondered how many locomotives actually would have carried this emblem, as you cannot find many pictures of steam with it. What you can find more typical is standard lettering, or an image like the metal emblem painted on the side of the cab BUT along with the initials "DR" for the railroad.



Date: 02/06/19 07:33
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: Steinzeit2

+1 to what Bunny218 posted:  Yes, I had doubts about that eagle's history as well: 
-  I agree that its normal application would have been on the cab sides, and that mounting on the smokebox door would have been very unlikely.  It would also not have able to be applied to streamlined classes such as the 03.10 because of the double hinged doors on the front giving access to the smokebox door.  Certainly one can find photos of eagles of different breeds on smokebox doors, but these were temporary decorations for the opening of a new bridge [ or in the case of occupied territory, the reopening of one.... ] or some similar occasion.
-  I also agree that not that many locomotives received them, they were the exception rather than the rule.  Even some locomotives that got them did not have them for long;  the classic example is the first E94, which had them for its builders photos but lost them soon thereafter.  
-  Because they were made of aluminum, during the war all remaining ones would have been removed for recycling for aircraft production.  Even steel number plates and other plates were often removed as part of the general scrap metal drives.  [  This is one reason a lot of the large Wagner 'elephant ear' smoke deflectors were removed;  if they were replaced at all, it was with the smaller Witte type or occasionally with wooden ones.]   Hence I find the likelihood of a locomotive having the eagle by the time Allied troops were advancing within Germany to be a little, ah, suspicious.

Best, SZ



Date: 02/07/19 08:00
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: gregscholl

Steinzeit2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hence I find the likelihood of a locomotive having
> the eagle by the time Allied troops were advancing
> within Germany to be a little, ah, suspicious.
>
> Best, SZ

Hey don't shoot the messenger!!!  Perhaps something got lost in the translation
from the station agent to the german railfan who was interpreting to English for us.
All I remember is he tripped over it inside the tunnel, and said the engine crews dumped
it out of side of German officials so they would not be thought of as Nazi sypathizers when the
Allies got there.  The idea it was from the side of the cab has a lot of merit to me.  It would make
easier to dispose of by pulling the loose bolts and let it drop down the side which would make it
land between the tunnel wall and the rails.  Perhaps someone can find some old B&W photos of
German engines with these eagles somewhere on the locos!
   Anyway I thought it was cool to see this, some 30 years after the war was over.  It was a bit of
history, and railroad related!
Greg



Date: 02/14/19 20:45
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: NebraskaZephyr

Bunny218 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Replica's of the Eagle emblem are indeed available
> for purchase today. I noticed that the original
> post said this emblem was placed on the smoke box,
> can anyone on here verify if that is correct? As
> far as I know, it was not on the smoke box but was
> usually mounted on the side of the cab. I've also
> often wondered how many locomotives actually would
> have carried this emblem, as you cannot find many
> pictures of steam with it. What you can find more
> typical is standard lettering, or an image like
> the metal emblem painted on the side of the cab
> BUT along with the initials "DR" for the railroad.

Well, at least ONE loco carried the eagle on its front, this electric at the DB Museum in Nuremburg. I'd have to find my museum guidebook I bought in the gift shop in order to tell you much about this one, but she sure is a good-looking "lok".

NZ  




Date: 02/14/19 22:29
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: norm1153

How about a reverse -- German train, American logo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/19 22:32 by norm1153.




Date: 02/14/19 23:05
Re: German Steam Nazi Emblem & Military Train
Author: Bunny218

That's a E-19 electric, high speed locomotive. We were talking about steam locomotives never wearing the emblem on the front, at least not in normal use. The fine looking electric in the red paint is I think one of two survivors of 4 E-19's built in 1938, that could operate at 112 mph. Not sure how long they wore this red scheme with the eagle on the nose, and would be interesting to know, but the unit spent most of it's life in dark green or blue paint.



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