European Railroad Discussion > 12th Dresden (Germany) Steam Loocmotive Festival April 17-19 2020

This would be an unforgettable experience. There is nothing like it in the USA or Canada.  Lots of mainline German steam locomotives and matching steam-era passenger cars, running on the mainlines.  Serious stuff. The Sunday morning trip includes two steam-powered trains running parallel to each other on a double-track mainline. Highly recommended.

- Doug Debs

https://www.igbwdresden-altstadt.de/index.php/en/11th-steam-engine-festival

General information
The Dresdner Dampfloktreffen has established its place among railway and steam galas in Saxony for many years. Vintage trains from various regions of Germany as well as from neighbouring countries intend to approach Dresden, for their travellers and rolling stock to attend this gala. Similar to previous years, we intend to have illuminated evening photo sessions and a live music concert "Steam & Dixie". An attractive programme of half-day and full-day excursion trains will be offered. We cordially welcome you as our travelling guests, in addition to "feel" the atmosphere in our depot. (To the top)Steam excursion trains intended - state of planning: July 24, 2019Along the 12th Dresden Steam Engine Festival the following vintage trains are planned, each hauled by a steam locomotive. The exact engines will be published here later on (expected in January 2020). Any data are subject to changes, but on the whole and large, the concept will most likely apply as presented here.
The ticket-presale on our website will start on 1st of October, 2019.

Tentative Schedule

Friday, 17-04-2020, afternoon:
"Die Rampensau"
(the name of this tour indicates something like a wild boar that keeps on bulling up steep inclinations one after another... when you familiarise with geographic details of the surroundings of Dresden you may grasp the image behind this name...)
Dresden main station - Freiberg - Dresden-Neustadt - Radeberg - Dresden main station
(Price: 42,00 Euro p.p. or 54,00 Euro as a combined ticket, no further discount)

Saturday, 18-04-2020, morning:
Train on Tharandter Rampe parallel to a freight train
Passenger train: Dresden main station - Freiberg - Dresden main station
Freight train: Dreden-Friedrichstadt - Klingenberg - Dresden-Friedrichstadt
(Price: 42,00 Euro p.p. or 54,00 Euro as a combined ticket, no further discount)

Saturday, 18-04-2020, afternoon:
"Dampfender Schlesier" ("The Steaming Silesian", maybe better translated as "The Flying Silesian" according to the great days of steam express services)
Dresden main station - Bautzen - Görlitz - Bautzen - Dresden main station
(Price: 42,00 Euro p.p. or 54,00 Euro as a combined ticket, no further discount)

Sunday, 19-04-2020, morning:
"Parallel-Dampfsatt"
Dresden main station - Bad Schandau (devided passenger train between Dresden main station and Pirna, travel as a parallel ride) - Decin (CZ) - Ústi n.L. (CZ) (devided passenger train, parallel ride on both sides of the river Elbe) and retour
(Price: 42,00 Euro p.p. or 54,00 Euro as a combined ticket, no further discount)

Sunday, 19-04-2020, afternoon:
Altenberg
Dresden main station - Heidenau - Altenberg - Heidenau - Dresden main station
(Price: 42,00 Euro p.p. or 54,00 Euro as a combined ticket, no further discount)   

---

And don't forget the fleet of vintage paddle steamers on the river. The entire city is like a museum....all restored after it was severly damaged by  WWII  Alliad bombing. What were vast areas of empty land in the late 1990's are now filled with shopping centers, restaurants, hotels, and apattments. Very little of the Soviet era remains.   Someone here a few days ago asked about when the next gathering of steam locomotives is. Look no further. This is it. 

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And don't forget the fleet of vintage paddle
> steamers on the river. The entire city is like a
> museum....all restored after it was severly
> damaged by  WWII  Alliad bombing. What were vast
> areas of empty land in the late 1990's are now
> filled with shopping centers, restaurants, hotels,
> and apattments. Very little of the Soviet era
> remains.   Someone here a few days ago asked
> about when the next gathering of steam locomotives
> is. Look no further. This is it.
 
When I had a great opportunity to visit Germany in 2002, Dresden was definitely a high point in my trip. The downtown area that had been fire bombed so heavily in WWII had almost been completely restored to its former self. Dresden was the old cultural center of Germany and you can still experience that atmosphere today. The steam paddlewheeler "Leipzig" was operating at the time I visited. And, if you have the time to tour a little, check out the Sachsen King's palaces and buildings as they are totally amazing. Also there are a few narrow guage railroads in that area.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/19 05:59 by Bob3985.

There is still lots of emotion regarding the bombing of Dresden. A locomotive engineer who trained me on the Canadian Pacific was on a bomber crew with the RCAF involved in bombing Dresden.

I spent my childhood in Leicester UK, which was not far from Coventry. The Dresden raids were in part a retaliation from Luftwaffe raids on Coventry. Their target was the Rolls Royce aircraft engine factories. Because RR started as a small industry in a residential neighbourhood, as it expanded, it remained surrounded by houses. During a heavy air raid, Coventry was involved in a firestorm which destroyed much of the downtown, including a Medieval cathedral. There were many civilian casualties. It was never determined if incendiary bombs were used on the raids on Coventry, but certainly they were used on London, where my parents lived during the war.

The Allied raids on Dresden were seen as a retaliation for Coventry. Certainly my friend with the RCAF and his Squadron thought so.

eminence_grise Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is still lots of emotion regarding the
> bombing of Dresden. A locomotive engineer who
> trained me on the Canadian Pacific was on a bomber
> crew with the RCAF involved in bombing Dresden.
>
> I spent my childhood in Leicester UK, which was
> not far from Coventry. The Dresden raids were in
> part a retaliation from Luftwaffe raids on
> Coventry. Their target was the Rolls Royce
> aircraft engine factories. Because RR started as a
> small industry in a residential neighbourhood, as
> it expanded, it remained surrounded by houses.
> During a heavy air raid, Coventry was involved in
> a firestorm which destroyed much of the downtown,
> including a Medieval cathedral. There were many
> civilian casualties. It was never determined if
> incendiary bombs were used on the raids on
> Coventry, but certainly they were used on London,
> where my parents lived during the war.
>
> The Allied raids on Dresden were seen as a
> retaliation for Coventry. Certainly my friend with
> the RCAF and his Squadron thought so.

Interesting story. I had not heard that version. I do know the raids on Dresden were highly controversial and I believe they went all the way up the chain of command for approval. Still,I believe that Japan received the bulk of fire bombing raids done druing the War as a matter of routine military operations.
Thanks for sharing. 

Thanks for sharing. If this were the USA this would be the mega foam event of the century. This may be worth a trip across the pond.

Posted from Android

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eminence_grise Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There is still lots of emotion regarding the
> > bombing of Dresden. A locomotive engineer who
> > trained me on the Canadian Pacific was on a
> bomber
> > crew with the RCAF involved in bombing Dresden.
> >
> > I spent my childhood in Leicester UK, which was
> > not far from Coventry. The Dresden raids were
> in
> > part a retaliation from Luftwaffe raids on
> > Coventry. Their target was the Rolls Royce
> > aircraft engine factories. Because RR started as
> a
> > small industry in a residential neighbourhood,
> as
> > it expanded, it remained surrounded by houses.
> > During a heavy air raid, Coventry was involved
> in
> > a firestorm which destroyed much of the
> downtown,
> > including a Medieval cathedral. There were many
> > civilian casualties. It was never determined if
> > incendiary bombs were used on the raids on
> > Coventry, but certainly they were used on
> London,
> > where my parents lived during the war.
> >
> > The Allied raids on Dresden were seen as a
> > retaliation for Coventry. Certainly my friend
> with
> > the RCAF and his Squadron thought so.
>
> Interesting story. I had not heard that version. I
> do know the raids on Dresden were highly
> controversial and I believe they went all the way
> up the chain of command for approval. Still,I
> believe that Japan received the bulk of fire
> bombing raids done druing the War as a matter of
> routine military operations.
> Thanks for sharing. 

I would recommend historian Frederick Taylor's book on the raid on Dresden. To characterise it as 'revenge' is too simplistic, Dresden was a legitimate target according to the area bombing strategy initiated by Sir Arthur Harris, head of the RAF's Bomber Command. It was an important railway junction and housed a number of relatively high tech industries on which the Third Reich was dependent. The Red Army was approaching from the east and wanted Germany's transport infrastructure disrupted, the RAF and USAAF obliged. And, on this occasion, all the random factors influencing the effectiveness of these kinds of bombing raids i.e. weather, opposition, navigation worked in the Allies favour. There were also small groups within Dresden for whom the raid was a god-send; prisoners of war, slave workers and Jews en-route to gas chambers all used the raid as cover to escape and survive until picked up be advancing Red Army units. It was Goebbels who classed it as a war crime.

"Strike Hard, Strike Sure"

Bomber Command's motto



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/19 18:00 by 4489.

Hello 86253,

to some extent you are right about the bombing of Dresden.
But to the best of my knowledge the railways were rebuilt within days, to allow operation of trains again. So some harm done, but how much? It may have been the intent to destroy the railways, but the results were different. Out of my head I do not even know whether or not any bridges were destroyed during the raids. I only remember thart there was one road bridge the retreating German military tried to blow up to no avail. The bridge subsequently got the nickname Blaues Wunder.
As well, the Elbauen were raided heavily. There were no railways to be found in the meadows of the Elbe river, only refugees that had tried to escape the advancing Red Army.

Cheers

kbs651

Links to other narrow-gauge trains and paddlesteamers operating in Dresden and parts of Saxony:

Sidewheel paddlesteamers
Sächsische Dampfschiffahrts-GmbH & Co. Conti Elbschiffahrts KG info on an amazing fleet of steam-powered paddle steamers (some dating to the 1870s and 1880s) operating on the River Elbe etc


Narrow-gauge steam railways reasonably near Dresden, info from https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A4chsische_Schmalspurbahnen

At present, the narrow gauge railways still operating in regular operation in Saxony are operated by the railway companies Sächsische Dampfeisenbahngesellschaft mbH (SDG, formerly BVO-Bahn), Sächsisch-Oberlausitzer Eisenbahngesellschaft mbH (SOEG) and Döllnitzbahn GmbH. They carry more than 1.1 million passengers per year. [4]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Bahnhof_Schmalzgrube_2.jpg/220px-Bahnhof_Schmalzgrube_2.jpgMuseumsbahn Preßnitztalbahn (2009)

The following lines are in service (as of June 2018):

• Sächsische Dampfeisenbahngesellschaft (SDG):
  
  • Cranzahl – Kurort Oberwiesenthal (Fichtelbergbahn)
  • Radebeul Ost – Radeburg (Lößnitzgrundbahn)
  • Freital-Hainsberg – Kurort Kipsdorf (Weißeritztalbahn)
• Sächsisch-Oberlausitzer Eisenbahngesellschaft (SOEG):
  
  • Zittau – Kurort Oybin
  • Bertsdorf – Kurort Jonsdorf
• Döllnitzbahn (DBG):
  
  • Oschatz – Mügeln (b Oschatz)
  • Mügeln (b Oschatz) – Glossen
  • Nebitzschen – Kemmlitz
• Museumsbahnen:
  
  • Steinbach – Jöhstadt (Preßnitztalbahn)
  • Stützengrün – Schönheide Mitte (Museumsbahn Schönheide)

- Doug Debs
 

kbs651 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello 86253,
>
> to some extent you are right about the bombing of
> Dresden.
> But to the best of my knowledge the railways were
> rebuilt within days, to allow operation of trains
> again. So some harm done, but how much? It may
> have been the intent to destroy the railways, but
> the results were different. Out of my head I do
> not even know whether or not any bridges were
> destroyed during the raids. I only remember thart
> there was one road bridge the retreating German
> military tried to blow up to no avail. The bridge
> subsequently got the nickname Blaues Wunder.
> As well, the Elbauen were raided heavily. There
> were no railways to be found in the meadows of the
> Elbe river, only refugees that had tried to escape
> the advancing Red Army.
>
> Cheers
>
> kbs651

I'm sure that's true, after the war was over many of the assumptions behind the strategic bombing campaign were found to be flawed. Bombs often fell far from the target, a product of poor intelligence, decoys and just bad luck. My point was that, contrary to Dr Goebbels assertion, the raid was as 'legitimate' as any other, Dresden was no more or less a city of the Nazi state but that the raids outcome was more terrible, and that was due to a combination of circumstances.

This roundhouse photo is a wonderful image of the times when steam ruled.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

86235 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kbs651 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hello 86253,
> >
> > to some extent you are right about the bombing
> of
> > Dresden.
> > But to the best of my knowledge the railways
> were
> > rebuilt within days, to allow operation of
> trains
> > again. So some harm done, but how much? It may
> > have been the intent to destroy the railways,
> but
> > the results were different. Out of my head I do
> > not even know whether or not any bridges were
> > destroyed during the raids. I only remember
> thart
> > there was one road bridge the retreating German
> > military tried to blow up to no avail. The
> bridge
> > subsequently got the nickname Blaues Wunder.
> > As well, the Elbauen were raided heavily. There
> > were no railways to be found in the meadows of
> the
> > Elbe river, only refugees that had tried to
> escape
> > the advancing Red Army.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > kbs651
>
> I'm sure that's true, after the war was over many
> of the assumptions behind the strategic bombing
> campaign were found to be flawed. Bombs often fell
> far from the target, a product of poor
> intelligence, decoys and just bad luck. My point
> was that, contrary to Dr Goebbels assertion, the
> raid was as 'legitimate' as any other, Dresden was
> no more or less a city of the Nazi state but that
> the raids outcome was more terrible, and that was
> due to a combination of circumstances.

Bombs also fell wide because the aircraft they were released from were bouncing around from FLAK and turbulance from the fires on the ground, was being shot at from both the air and the ground and may have been damaged too. The fact that bombs actually hit the "target" in the first place is a pretty big achievement.
Even today with "smart bombs" we have bombs hitting off target.

I remember reading a bio of General Curtis Lemay where he told an aid  during the WWII fire bombing raids on Japan "we better win this war or we are going to be tried as war criminals".