European Railroad Discussion > Back to A. E. Brown with some LNER

I finally got back to town and apologize for missing a week but . . . .   Anyway, we'll start again with another of Mr. Brown's relatively infrequent visits to the LNER.

1.  BR 62541 - Yarnton Jct. 7-23-55
2.  BR 61116 - Neasden 3-27-56
3.  BR 67710 - Port Seadow Siding (Oxford) 5-15-55

Corrections always welcomed!

Gordon

 

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Wonderful. In no.1 the loco is a Great Eastern Railway Claud Hamilton 4-4-0 as rebuilt by Nigel Gresley. In 1955 it was allocated to Cambridge shed, so I suppose it is possible that it reached Oxford on a service from Cambridge, Yarnton Junction is north of Oxford, with a spur from the LNWR Oxford to Cambridge line, which would have been worked by locos from Cambridge shed. In no.2 61116 was allocated to Neasden from 1952 to 1959 although the shot looks remarkably countrified for what is an inner London suburb, although there may have been angles without any urban detritus. No.3 is an L1 2-6-4T, designed by Edward Thompson and built in 1947 / 1948. They weren't a particularly successful locomotives, the 5'2" driving wheels were too small for their intended work on suburban passenger services and they quickly developed a reputation for rough riding and all sorts of bearing problems from running at speed. They were much better suited for freight work as Mr Brown's picture suggests, although that's a milk train which would have run at near passenger train speeds. Now I don't think that's Oxford, 67710 (which is what I think it is) spent almost its entire life in East Anglia so I'd plump for somewhere on the Great Eastern with milk for the United Dairies bottling plant in Ilford. 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/21 12:30 by 86235.

Thanks for posting these great roster and action pictures, as always.  Where are the cylinders, or is the cylinder, on the engine in picture #1?  Gerry

Inside between the frames, standard configuration for almost all British locomotives in the 19th and early 20th centuries.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/21 00:30 by 86235.

Three more wonderful images, Gordon -- thanks. I really like no. 2, a very nice 4-6-0.

86235 Wrote:
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> Inside between the frames, standard configuration
> for almost all British locomotives in the 19th and
> early 20th centuries.

Indeed, an arrangement the value of which has always eluded me. But then, I think like the American that I am, and expect the cylinders to be on the outside of the frame (though I've gotten used to them being inside for British steam)..

So, I've always wanted to ask - why inside cylinders? And as long as the topic has come up, well then, I'm asking why. It has always seemed to me that it made for more difficulty in maintenance and inspection. But, I may be missing some value to the arrangement. Thanks in advance for your patience with my inquiry, and for your response.

MC



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/21 17:35 by ironmtn.

ironmtn Wrote:
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> Indeed, an arrangement the value of which has
> always eluded me. But then, I think like the
> American that I am, and expect the cylinders to be
> on the outside of the frame (though I've gotten
> used to them being inside for British steam)..
>
> So, I've always wanted to ask - why inside
> cylinders? And as long as the topic has come up,
> well then, I'm asking why. It has always seemed to
> me that it made for more difficulty in maintenance
> and inspection. But, I may be missing some value
> to the arrangement. Thanks in advance for your
> patience with my inquiry, and for your response.
>
> MC

Very good question, I suspect inertia played a part, it often does in railway matters!

Inside cylinders certainly offered a smoother ride in those early years, I also wonder whether in the days before steel became universal, a pair of iron cylinders attached to each other and the iron frames gave a more solid mass. Steam passages would have been marginally shorter, which may also have impacted thermal efficiency. What's interesting is that some designers built both inside and outside cylinder designs at the same time, usually the outside cylinder locomotives had larger cylinders which could not be accommodated between the frames, Patrick Stirling's
4-2-2 express locomotives of the Great Northern come to mind.

Thank you for the kind response, Nick. You mentioned a few things I had not given thought to as reasons. Much appreciated.

MC

Could the inside Cylinder plan be because a larger outside cylinder dimension would foul Station Platforms?

James R.(Jim) Baker
Whittier, CA