European Railroad Discussion > Gare de l'Est Paris 1996

Paris, September 1996, one of the few times on my trip where I was able to just hang out at a station, and take in the activity.  Photo number three looks like a commuter train.

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smf2mry Wrote:
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> Paris, September 1996, one of the few times on my
> trip where I was able to just hang out at a
> station, and take in the activity.  Photo number
> three looks like a commuter train.


1. Looks like Eurofima cars, possibly an International (EuroCity as they are now termed) working.


3. V2N stock (Voitures à deux niveau) - ie two-floor cars. These were formed into fixed push-pull sets using any suitably wired locomotive that was available, in practice this flexibility was more limited in use as they seemed to generally get older 1950s and 60s electrics working them.

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The practice of first and second class commuter rail cars always intrigued me.  Subway cars, too

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> The practice of first and second class commuter
> rail cars always intrigued me.  Subway cars, too

I didn't notice that until I posted it.  I guess first class sits and second class stands?
 

smf2mry Wrote:
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> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The practice of first and second class commuter
> > rail cars always intrigued me.  Subway cars,
> too
>
> I didn't notice that until I posted it.  I guess
> first class sits and second class stands?
>  

The Paris Metro had seperate First Class cars until the mid-1980s when it became second class only. There was no difference internally compared to Second Class.

The RER Regional Express services had First Class on certain lines but afaik no longer do, though some trains retain the First Class seating.

The suburban SNCF trains have First Class seating on the upper level of usually one car in the double deck push-pull sets.

Some of the stainless steel single deck push-pull trains have First Class in the centre portion of one car as well, though few of these are used on suburban services anymore the surviving sets mostly used on regional workings now.

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Hexagon789 Wrote:

>
> 1. Looks like Eurofima cars.....
>
>
> 3. V2N stock (Voitures à deux niveau) - ie
> two-floor cars. These were formed into fixed
> push-pull sets using any suitably wired locomotive
> that was available, in practice this flexibility
> was more limited in use as they seemed to
> generally get older 1950s and 60s electrics
> working them.
1.  The two vehicles are DB and 2nd class [ Frankfurt/M train ? ] so they are not 'true Eurofima 500', as DB bought 100 Firsts;  but they could be the Second Class cars that followed on 'in the Eurofima style' Bpmz / Bvmz classes -- can't tell.

3,  Actually these were termed VB-2N, the B for Banlieue [ = Suburban ];  there were also VO-2N [ O = Omnibus, for local train service, often provincial commuter, or from Paris to beyond the denser commuter belt -- Laroche, for example ] ;  and the VR-2N version for the Nord-Pas de Calais Region.  The V-2N [ or V2N ] designation was used for the later, higher quality two level stock ordered in 1989 and equipped with TDM multiplex equipments for use with newer, higher hp locomotives, to provide a more quality service [ better seats with less density, for example ] to the outer commuter belt in lieu of the VO-2N's.  Note that none of this stock, even the V-2N's, was air conditioned.
    Yes, they generally were used with the BB16500/17000/8500/25500 family of locos, as the -2N sets as traffic increased generally replaced the single level RIB stainless stock previously employed with those locos.

Best regards, SZ

Steinzeit2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hexagon789 Wrote:
>
> >
> > 1. Looks like Eurofima cars.....
> >
> >
> > 3. V2N stock (Voitures à deux niveau) - ie
> > two-floor cars. These were formed into fixed
> > push-pull sets using any suitably wired
> locomotive
> > that was available, in practice this
> flexibility
> > was more limited in use as they seemed to
> > generally get older 1950s and 60s electrics
> > working them.
> 1.  The two vehicles are DB and 2nd class [
> Frankfurt/M train ? ] so they are not 'true
> Eurofima 500', as DB bought 100 Firsts;  but they
> could be the Second Class cars that followed on
> 'in the Eurofima style' Bpmz / Bvmz classes --
> can't tell.
>
> 3,  Actually these were termed VB-2N, the B for
> Banlieue [ = Suburban ];  there were also VO-2N [
> O = Omnibus, for local train service, often
> provincial commuter, or from Paris to beyond the
> denser commuter belt -- Laroche, for example ] ; 
> and the VR-2N version for the Nord-Pas de Calais
> Region.  The V-2N [ or V2N ] designation was used
> for the later, higher quality two level stock
> ordered in 1989 and equipped with TDM multiplex
> equipments for use with newer, higher hp
> locomotives, to provide a more quality service [
> better seats with less density, for example ] to
> the outer commuter belt in lieu of the VO-2N's. 
> Note that none of this stock, even the V-2N's, was
> air conditioned.
>     Yes, they generally were used with the
> BB16500/17000/8500/25500 family of locos, as the
> -2N sets as traffic increased generally replaced
> the single level RIB stainless stock previously
> employed with those locos.
>
> Best regards, SZ

1. Apologies they look like Eurofima and I doubt I could tell the difference between those and the coaches you describe. As I recall SNCF had some compartment Firsts which were also similar to but not built exactly to Eurofima standards to confuse things further.

2. I wasn't aware of these differences, but many thanks for explaining the distinctions very neatly.

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