European Railroad Discussion > Putin Travels on Armoured Train?

click here:

Putin uses armoured train for security reasons since beginning of war (yahoo.com)

Victor Baird

He's just following the example of his buddy Kim Jong-un of North Korea.

That would seem to be a fairly obvious give away he's in the neighborhood.  And one that could be spotted from satellites fairly easily.

The Russian invaders and their allies have tied down a lot of their troops defending railway bridges, track, etc in recent months. A report today said 97% of Russia's combat troops are in Ukraine

More here: Not only an armoured train: a secret railway was built for Putin in Russia (yahoo.com)

Some special trackage and stations have reportedly been built to accommodate Putin's private trains.

Victor Baird

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He's just following the example of his buddy Kim
> Jong-un of North Korea.

Or the character of Strelnikov, who was a railway worker before he became a Bolshevik revolutionary and leader of Red partisan forces in Boris Pasternak's famed novel Doctor Zhivago. The train is in a memorable scene in David Lean's marvelous motion picture adaptation of the book, with Strelnikov well played by Tom Courtenay. A clip of the train's passing at speed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hCczioWiZk

There is another scene on the train as well, when Yuri Zhivago stumbles upon Strenikov's armored train, and in a chilling scene is brought before Strelnikov in his armored coach for questioning:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_FnlGKVhQ0

The totalitarian bad guys just love their armored trains.

MC



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/23 16:41 by ironmtn.

And there are other interesting train scenes in the movie too.

Victor Baird



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/23 18:43 by wabash2800.

Good movie, lots of trains.

Posted from Android

ironmtn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > He's just following the example of his buddy
> Kim
> > Jong-un of North Korea.
>
> Or the character of Strelnikov, who was a railway
> worker before he became a Bolshevik revolutionary
> and leader of Red partisan forces in Boris
> Pasternak's famed novel Doctor Zhivago. The train
> is in a memorable scene in David Lean's marvelous
> motion picture adaptation of the book, with
> Strelnikov well played by Tom Courtenay. A clip
> of the train's passing at speed: Strelnikov, -
> YouTube
>
> There is another scene on the train as well, when
> Yuri Zhivago stumbles upon Strenikov's armored
> train, and in a chilling scene is brought before
> Strelnikov in his armored coach for
> questioning:  Doctor Zhivago (1965) - Zhivago
> and Strelnikov - YouTube
>
> The totalitarian bad guys just love their armored
> trains.
>
> MC

All good Spanish trains :-)

Train might be armored, but the tracks aren't.  This might be an opportunity...

FDR's rail car was armored with the same Class A armor plate used on the Brooklyn Class light cruisers your point is what? 

The Presidential limo is heavily armored with the most modern bullet and explosion resistant materials available, your point is what? 

True, and then it would be a sitting duck... The armoured train thing is so passe with WWI. A saboteur could probably cause some serious damage with hand held weapons used to destroy tanks, and missles are accurate enough to hit on target from hundreds of miles away. Bye, Bye, Choo, Choo.

Victor Baird

a737flyer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Train might be armored, but the tracks aren't.
>  This might be an opportunity...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/23 08:18 by wabash2800.

86235 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All good Spanish trains :-)

Nick is correct, and as usual, insightful. All of the impressive railway scenes in the film Doctor Zhivago involving Strelnikov's armored train that look so "Russian" were filmed by David Lean in Spain. As were many other scenes.

The movie site IMDb identifies some railway scenes as having been shot on the CP in Alberta, although I can't specifically recall or identify them right now. I think they may be scenes approaching the mountains, standing in for the Urals, as Zhivago's family travels east. Some wintertime railway scenes were filmed in Finland. And CP, Spanish Railways and Finnish Railways are credited at the end of the film.

The picture was filmed in 1963-64 at the height of the Cold War, when hardline Communist Nikita Khrushchev was still leading the Soviet Union. Shooting the film in Russia during a regime which had banned Boris Pasternak's original novel on which the picture was based was all but unthinkable. But there have been a few people who have claimed that David Lean nevertheless made a try at doing so, however halfheartedly, on the basis of perceiving some however small thaw in relations with the USSR as Khrushchev's power was weakening, and after Khrushchev's extraordinary and famous 1956 speech condemning Josef Stalin and the practices of the Stalinist era.

By the date of the film's release in 1965, Khrushchev had been replaced by Leonid Brezhnev, who although he would go on to sign arms limitation accords with the United States, was just as much a Communist Party hardliner and Cold Warrior in his own way as Khrushchev.  The film was banned in the Soviet Union, condemned by Communist Party organs as inaccurate, anti-historical and revanchist, and was not seen in the former Soviet Union until 1994, after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the end of the Cold War and the disintegration of the former Soviet Union. Boris Pasternak's original novel, which had been published in Italy in 1957 while having been banned in the USSR, was not published in the Soviet Union until 1987, during the period of glasnost and the regime of Mikhail Gorbachev.

The real thaw in relations that would permit Western film producers to shoot in Russia did not come until the Gorbachev era. The film The Russia House, released in 1990 and based on the espionage novel of the same title by John LeCarre, and starring Sean Connery and very lovely Michelle Pfeiffer, was the first major Western studio production to be heavily shot in Russia, with many long scenes based in Moscow and Leningrad / St/ Petersburg. Like Doctor Zhivago, it is a huge favorite of this guy, who is partially of Russian descent. And like many people, I went to see it very quickly after release in large measure (despite also being a John LeCarre fan) just to see what Russia really looked like outside of the standard TV news views of central Moscow and the Kremlin. And what an eye-opener it was - both for spectacularly beautiful urban scenes in St. Petersburg, and the grinding anonymity of endless socialist apartment blocks and shabby, worn down structures in many locations. There is even a  marvelous and very evocative train scene where Barley Blair (Sean Connery) travels by train to St. Petersburg, and sits in a lovely dining car contemplating the passing Russian rural scenery, the espionage he has become engaged in, and his emerging feelings for Katya (Michelle Pfeiffer). I can still remember thinking as I watched that scene, "So this is what Russia really looks like!". 

Did Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev and other Soviet-era totalitarian leaders also have armored trains? I don't know, but I wouldn't put it past them. Strelnikov was a fictional figure in Doctor Zhivago, but probably not at all unlike the murderous Stalin, or even Khrushchev, whose biographers have made clear had a period of hardline revolutionary zeal early in his career that extended to signing de facto death warrants.

Thank God they're all gone, with all of the apparatus surrounding them. Except that they really aren't. There's still ex-KGB guy Putin. And he apparently indeed, true to character, has an armored train. Guys like him just love their armored trains.

MC

 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/23 08:27 by ironmtn.

The Spanish Railways also used a wide gauge track in the 1960s, suitable as a stand-in for the Czarist era wide gauge.

ironmtn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The movie site IMDb identifies some railway scenes
> as having been shot on the CP in Alberta, although
> I can't specifically recall or identify them right
> now. I think they may be scenes approaching the
> mountains, standing in for the Urals, as Zhivago's
> family travels east. Some wintertime railway
> scenes were filmed in Finland. And CP, Spanish
> Railways and Finnish Railways are credited at the
> end of the film.
>
> The picture was filmed in 1963-64 at the height of
> the Cold War, when hardline Communist Nikita
> Khrushchev was still leading the Soviet Union.
> Shooting the film in Russia during a regime which
> had banned Boris Pasternak's original novel on
> which the picture was based was all but
> unthinkable. But there have been a few people who
> have claimed that David Lean nevertheless made a
> try at doing so, however halfheartedly, on the
> basis of perceiving some however small thaw in
> relations with the USSR as Khrushchev's power was
> weakening, and after Khrushchev's extraordinary
> and famous 1956 speech condemning Josef Stalin and
> the practices of the Stalinist era.
>
> By the date of the film's release in 1965,
> Khrushchev had been replaced by Leonid Brezhnev,
> who although he would go on to sign arms
> limitation accords with the United States, was
> just as much a Communist Party hardliner and Cold
> Warrior in his own way as Khrushchev.  The film
> was banned in the Soviet Union, condemned by
> Communist Party organs as inaccurate,
> anti-historical and revanchist, and was not seen
> in the former Soviet Union until 1994, after the
> fall of the Berlin Wall, the end of the Cold War
> and the disintegration of the former Soviet Union.
> Boris Pasternak's original novel, which had been
> published in Italy in 1957 while having been
> banned in the USSR, was not published in the
> Soviet Union until 1987, during the period of
> glasnost and the regime of Mikhail Gorbachev.
>
> The real thaw in relations that would permit
> Western film producers to shoot in Russia did not
> come until the Gorbachev era. The film The Russia
> House, released in 1990 and based on the espionage
> novel of the same title by John LeCarre, and
> starring Sean Connery and very lovely Michelle
> Pfeiffer, was the first major Western studio
> production to be heavily shot in Russia, with many
> long scenes based in Moscow and Leningrad / St/
> Petersburg. Like Doctor Zhivago, it is a huge
> favorite of this guy, who is partially of Russian
> descent. And like many people, I went to see it
> very quickly after release in large measure
> (despite also being a John LeCarre fan) just to
> see what Russia really looked like outside of the
> standard TV news views of central Moscow and the
> Kremlin. And what an eye-opener it was - both for
> spectacularly beautiful urban scenes in St.
> Petersburg, and the grinding anonymity of endless
> socialist apartment blocks and shabby, worn down
> structures in many locations. There is even a 
> marvelous and very evocative train scene where
> Barley Blair (Sean Connery) travels by train to
> St. Petersburg, and sits in a lovely dining car
> contemplating the passing Russian rural scenery,
> the espionage he has become engaged in, and his
> emerging feelings for Katya (Michelle Pfeiffer). I
> can still remember thinking as I watched that
> scene, "So this is what Russia really looks
> like!". 
>
> Did Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev and other
> Soviet-era totalitarian leaders also have armored
> trains? I don't know, but I wouldn't put it past
> them. Strelnikov was a fictional figure in Doctor
> Zhivago, but probably not at all unlike the
> murderous Stalin, or even Khrushchev, whose
> biographers have made clear had a period of
> hardline revolutionary zeal early in his career
> that extended to signing de facto death warrants.
>
> Thank God they're all gone, with all of the
> apparatus surrounding them. Except that they
> really aren't. There's still ex-KGB guy Putin. And
> he apparently indeed, true to character, has an
> armored train. Guys like him just love their
> armored trains.
>
> MC
>
>  
Well said!

86235 Wrote:
> All good Spanish trains :-)

Not quite.  Due to the snow requirements, I believe a VR [ Finnish ] Tv2 2-8-0 also appears, as does a very brief clip of a Canadian Pacific train in Alberta.

SZ



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/23 16:12 by Steinzeit2.

The distances, and the poor Russian road network outside of the Moscow and St. Petersburg areas means road travel is not really an option. And Russian aviation has a poor history of crashes. The Russian Navy lost a flight carrying two dozen Admirals and senior officers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Pushkin_Tu-104_crash

The scene where Zhivago is riding a streetcar and spots Julie Christie walking along the sidewalk was shot in Boston using a trolley borrowed from a museum, and running on a piece of isolated track somewhere in the city.
 

Steinzeit2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 86235 Wrote:
> > All good Spanish trains :-)
>
> Not quite.  Due to the snow requirements, I
> believe a VR [ Finnish ] Tv2 2-8-0 also appears,
> as does a very brief clip of a Canadian Pacific
> train in Alberta.
>
> SZ

In the clips for which links were posted both trains were Spanish, possibly a 141F

Ah, OK -- I was thinking "All" ....  The two RENFE's were 140-2502 and 141(F)-2239.  One of those MZA semi-streamlined 4-8-2's 'as is' -- er, was -- would have been better than the gussied-up 141.....

Norm, it's pretty well documented that the streetcar scenes were shot near Madrid on a constructed set, so I think you may be recalling a different movie.

SZ

 

Dr. Zhivago was a great movie.  It gave a fairly accurate, although greatly condensed, history of the USSR.  And who couldn't like Julie Christie as Lara.  I wonder if the fictional character of Strenlnikov could have been loosely based on Leon Trotsky.  Now he would have almost certainly used an armored train.