Railroaders' Nostalgia > Getting on and off moving equipment

Probably nothing grieves me more then to watch a train crew involved in switching today. It seems to take forever for even the simplest switching move. The prohibition of getting on and off moving equipment adds much time to any railroad work.

I worked for SP as a trainman in the 1960's. We routinely dropped off and ran ahead of a moving locomotive to line a switch to head into a siding or to route our train into yards. Switching a cut of cars on a yard lead meant running alongside cars to hold the uncoupling lever up.

SP had a special rule in the timetable requiring that the head brakeman of an Eastbound passenger train detrain on the North side of his train at Indio, roll by ( inspect ) the train, and then walk the South side of the train to the head end, and roll the North side out reboarding at the same vestibule. This rule was meant to insure that any sticking brakes or hot wheels from the use of retaining valves between Beaumont and Thousand Palms would be seen and corrected.

I remember a particular summer evening. I was the head brakeman on the Sunset Limited. Now in the summer time in the early 1960's, the Sunset normally had 22 to 26 cars every night. That made a very long train to walk, about 2500 feet. Remember also, Indio in the summer is still over 95 degrees at 1130pm, and the train crews wore a 16 ounce blue serge uniform with shirt and tie.
Brother, that was hot, and you didn't want to walk any farther than necessary.

As the train approached Indio, I summoned a chair car attendant to watch the steps I opened, then stepped down to the bottom step as the train approached the West end of the platform. I suppose we were moving about 15 MPH. Carefully I swung my right or trailing foot down and as it touched the platform, I stepped forward on my left foot, expecting to take one or two quick steps and stop. Not so! The platform was covered with a thin layer of fine pea gravel due to some maintenance project. I noted that I was rolling on the gravel about as fast as the train, while wildly waving my arms to keep my balance. For a moment I considered reboarding the train. Somehow I kept my balance and didn't fall and slide beneath the train or even just fall in full uniform into the gravel and dust.

Ten minutes later, the engineer looked down at me, whistled off, and I rolled the head end of the train out. Reboarding at the open door, the chair car attendant was still laughing hysterically at my wild ride down the platform!

Typical Sunset Limited consist, Summer 1962:

1 Baggage/Mail LA to El Paso
2 Baggage/Mail LA to San Antonio
3 Baggage/Mail LA to New Orleans
4 RPO/Baggage LA to New Orleans Working
5 Baggage/Mail LA to New Orleans Working
6 Baggage/Mail LA to New Orleans Working
7 Baggage Dorm LA to New Orleans Working
5 to 7 chair cars LA to El Paso
Hamburger Grill car or Automat LA to El Paso
5 to 6 coaches LA to New Orleans
Diner LA to New Orleans
Lounge LA to New Orleans
3 sleepers LA to New Orleans
1 Sleeper (10-6) LA to El Paso (to Fort Worth on T&P #8
Total 26 cars


TIOGA PASS



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/12 17:25 by aronco.

---

And west bound that sleeper from this T&P returned on T&P # 1.

I really appreciate this story as I had no idea such inspections took place in connection with the SP passenger trains.
Another interesting fact - the SP did run some BIG Sunset and Golden State trains in season during the '60's. With the present SUNSET being one of Amtrak's less-travelled LD trains, it interesting so see that the route carried a good amount of passengers during my lifetime.

Andy

Regarding getting on and off ...

yeah, it was expected when I started and if you didn't maybe you should get into a different line of work or just plain stop "f-ing the dog" and get your work done.

Lots more loose car railroading back then I suspect and much more peddler freight type jobs than the road through freights of today. .... just a thought or guess.

train1275 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Regarding getting on and off ...
>
> yeah, it was expected when I started and if you
> didn't maybe you should get into a different line
> of work or just plain stop "f-ing the dog" and get
> your work done.
>
> Lots more loose car railroading back then I
> suspect and much more peddler freight type jobs
> than the road through freights of today. .... just
> a thought or guess.


The larger question is, what is the comparative injury rate in climbing on/off moving equipment. What is the quality of life for those that were injured throughout their careers on the RR as they enter retirement? How many 'new' hips, knees, and ankles are part of the "retirement' package?

Well what are the stats ?

I've known and worked with many old timers who got on fine and were even getting on and off well into their 60's if not older. I did it for many years and have problems, but unrelated to getting on and off moving equipment.

For some of us it is like being an Olympic athelete. If you keep going off the 90m ski jump you will get hurt and injured. Or if you play professional contact sports. That is what you signed up for and when it all changed so we could not kick out the work and feel pride in doing so it was time to leave. I understand what it is like to see some of the switching nowdays, about as exciting as watching future Olympians going off the kiddie jump so no one gets hurt, or third graders fumbling their way through. The feeling is get the hell out of the way and lets get it done.

The reality is that we have made things safer which is good, but it is a different culture and us dinosaurs just don't fit into it. Thats fine, we can still enjoy trains or work in the industry, just not do what we used to do the way we used to. I can never remember an injury due to getting on and off ....not that they did not happen but I saw more injuries with cut levers, slips, trips and falls unrelated to getting off equipment, even stopped, box car doors, pinchpoints in cabs and my head still hurts from banging it on that arched post in F units.

I guess I would not want to turn the clock back but it was heady work in those days and there is that longing for what we could do with the tools we had and the skills we developed.

It seems many times now we are protecting the ignorant from hurting themsevles. I've done many efficiency tests and safety audits and am astounded at the lack of what I thought was common sense. Common sense is not so common, but it still amazes me that so many are not aware of how dangerous railroad equipment can be. Maybe as onne said sometime back it is something learned from a young age like a farm boy having more "sense" in working with big equipment. I dunno. I've caught guys working grinders without safety glasses, welders without goggles and trainmen radioing a move then stepping in front of it blind to the engineer. Ye gads, at least if possible stay visually connected.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/12 09:43 by train1275.

I suppose at some point an analysis determined it was cheaper to slow down switching operations than paying out injury claims.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

In June of 1980 I passed my locomotive engineer exams and was promoted working out of Lincoln, NE on the BN. Within weeks I was forced to the vacancy of fireman on Amtrak number six since I was the senior examined fireman at that time. Harvey Morton was the regular engineer on the Lincoln to Creston, IA run. Harvey thought rather highly of himself and considered firemen and trainmen to be very inferior. After our stop in Omaha we would cross into Iowa over the UP bridge subdivision. Before the UP yard tracks began there was a hand throw switch to get back on BN tracks not far from the Council Bluffs Grow Tower. It was my responsibility to unlock and line the switch . As soon as I had the switch lined Harvey would get after them. I would literally run toward the oncoming engine to shorten the distance Harvey had to accelerate. Even then it was very difficult to grab the ladder, plant my foot in the step and get on at that speed. I never complained since I had my pride that I was not a "wuss". Looking back on it I probably should have let him go by and made my way to the headend while the rear brakeman reset and locked the switch.

Ken Britton
Bedford, TX

More on this here...

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,2893387

Word is a Major Eastern Railroad is considering allowing it again.

I hope you gave him the look, "I meant to do that".

fwiw, in the modern era I've noticed that UP covers ≈2" ballast with ≈1" gravel in the vicinity of switch machines. Much less conducive to turning an ankle in the dark.
...Lorenzo

Ive switched cars in my younger days and have got on and off thousands of time when they were moving. If you do it right and dont participate if the speed is too fast (15 miles per per hour is a little too speedy) its its safe and efficient---its somtimes gives you a sense of pride particulary if you are aiming for an early quit.

train1275 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess I would not want to turn the clock back
> but it was heady work in those days and there is
> that longing for what we could do with the tools
> we had and the skills we developed.

Drops, kicking cars. Yes indeed.

>.... and trainmen radioing a
> move then stepping in front of it blind to the
> engineer.

... or the hand-signal version, giving a "come to me" and then crossing in front of the power. Saved by "disappearance of employee giving signal."

I don't know what the stats are but in the 40 plus years I was out there, very few of the injuries were getting on and off moving equipment. Today, you don't have any old heads to teach the right or wrong way to do it.

There were a lot of problems with poor footing, walking trains, etc. Junk in the toe path, squirrel holes and the like. Really hard to see in the dark. There were slip and falls on engine gangways from oil and injuries from defective safety equipment on cars and locomotives. Hand holds, stirrups, hand brakes, etc. For awhile, we had a bunch of people hurt and killed by plug doors on box cars falling off. Lost a good friend in Salinas when he was riding the side of a refer to a spot when the rail turned over and he was crushed between the car and the dock. A lot of people got hurt trying to line up drawbars, replacing knuckles and trying to drag drawbars out from between the rails. There were switch stands that were hard to throw and the lever would jump out of your hands and get your legs or knees. Opening an angle cock without holding onto the glad hand and the air line was charged. Getting stuff in your eyes was a real hazard when they had cast iron shoes on the equipment. Don't forget the sand blowing around in grade territory.

The list could go on but that's the way we got over the road. You would always try and have the brakes released as you pulled up to a siding and the head man ran for the switch, and you could keep moving into the siding. Making drops was a way of life on some jobs in order to get the work done.

On the west peddler you had to pick up a refer and spot the mty off the siding at the east switch at Soledad. Well, you stop back and the rear man would cut you off with the one mty. By that time, the head man would have you lined into the siding and into the spur. You would go in and pick up the car on your nose, back out and kick it down the main with conductor riding it. Then you would drop the mty into the spur and go back to your train. By this time, the conductor would have ridden the loaded car down around the curve. As he got close to the house track switch, he would drop off, run ahead and line the switch, let the car roll by, line up behind and catch the car and ride it to a stop at the west end. By then you would be coming around the curve with the train and up to the west house track switch. The head man would cut you off, go in and pick up the car, double back to the train and start pumping up the air. Then you would pull by the conductor and he would get on the caboose and you would take off for Salinas. The secret was, you had to have a conductor that knew what he was doing. Only knew 3 on the Coast that would make that move an it saved about an hour or more.

We would have a car on the east peddler for East Garrison. You would pull up and leave a little room and drop the car in. Back to your train and go. Yet there were a few conductors that were scared to do it so that meant stopping at the west switch at Bradley, cutting the engines and car off, taking the car up to the east switch, shoving it into the siding, leaving it there, going back to your train, then pulling up through the siding, putting the car on your nose, lining up the west switch, lining up the east switch and shoving the car all the way over to East Garrison, cutting the power off and shoving the car to a spot. Then back to the train and continue towards SLO. That move cost way over an hour and back then you were trying to clear other trains on your orders and dodging the passenger trains.

I am sure there are other stories out there. Again, I don't think very many injuries were from getting on and off moving equipment.

Nudge

spnudge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We would have a car on the east peddler for East
> Garrison. You would pull up and leave a little
> room and drop the car in. Back to your train and
> go. Yet there were a few conductors that were
> scared to do it so that meant stopping at the west
> switch at Bradley, cutting the engines and car
> off, taking the car up to the east switch, shoving
> it into the siding, leaving it there, going back
> to your train, then pulling up through the siding,
> putting the car on your nose, lining up the west
> switch, lining up the east switch and shoving the
> car all the way over to East Garrison, cutting the
> power off and shoving the car to a spot. Then back
> to the train and continue towards SLO. That move
> cost way over an hour and back then you were
> trying to clear other trains on your orders and
> dodging the passenger trains.
>
> Nudge


Yep. Like dropping a flat loaded with an Army tank on it.

V

SLOCONDR

Why invest time and money trying to train employees in a high risk skill that has little to no use in today's business environment? How many job starts do the sort of complicated switching where geting on and off moving equipment is one of many procedures which could save a significant amount of time, especially if you're not using a 5 man crew?

I realize this is the nostalgia board, and I do sincerely enjoy reading stories about the old days, but to think that you'd gain any real efficiency in bringing it back is a stretch.

Little or no use? My guess you have never worked as a brakeman or if you had, you would know there are still a lot of places that don't get their cars on time. This is because of trains having to take cars on to the next terminal so another train can take it all the way back to spot it. That is a waist of time, money for crews and fuel. Not to mention the poor shipper having to wait a few more days for their car. In case of feed, its Farmer Brown that is waiting for food for his stock. Or it could be Acme Builders waiting for a carload of lumber so they can finish that house before the rains come. And....................

Nudge

To add to what Nudge just mentioned, a car (regardless of whether it was a load or an empty) going from Roseville to Bakersfield has to go from Roseville to West Colton on a QRVWC, then from West Colton to Bakersfield on the MWCFR before it was set out which is a distance of roughly 676 miles versus 298 miles from Roseville to Bakersfield. It must be noted that I've been away from the railroad for over a year now and the routing for this fictitious car may have been changed. However, when I was working, this is the route a car would take going from RV to Bakersfield.

JDE

Getting on and off moving equipment was part of the course for amateur brakemen ("amateur" is from the Latin word for "love", meaning you're not getting paid to do it) at Orange Empire in my younger days. One of our few professional railroaders in the membership told us that the Class 1 that he worked for fitted a crew van with boxcar ladders and the prospective trainmen would learn in a parking lot. We did it with real, old-school freight cars. Some of the instructions I remember: "Lead with the trailing foot (getting on or off)" and "If you think the train is moving too fast for safety, give the engineer a washout (stop signal) and board when the train is stopped. Having to deal with an injury takes a lot more time." I think the current GCOR does not permit boarding moving equipment.

Last year, I was on a flight from Little Rock to LAX on Southwest Airlines. Everything was "nominal" until we got to Las Vegas, where I changed planes. We were about to get in line for takeoff, but were directed to an alternate runway because of wind conditions. Then a desert thunderstorm moved in, and the captain advised us that we were on "ground hold". We sat there for over an hour while wind rocked the plane, rain soaked the pavement, and lightning flashed. Finally the storm moved on and we were cleared for takeoff. Upon arrival at LAX, the crew apologized for the delay, and as I headed for the exit, I told them, "Where I come from, SAFE beats FAST any day!"--getting a "thumbs up" from the captain.