Railroaders' Nostalgia > Old Heads - how's your memory for hand signals?!

http://796.teamstersrail.com/1246-2/back-in-the-day-hand-signals-contest/

I did see a few hand signals that are/were used in the midwest that I learned when I worked for the MILW in Chicago but are not used on western railroads, at least on the old SP. I was surprised I knew as many as I did.

JDE

What JDE said.

I was surprised I had remembered so many that I haven't used in decades. But there were quite a few I didn't recognize at all and suspect many of those may have been regional and not used "out west", at least not in the U.S. There were a few I was expecting to see that were not in the video at all, so perhaps those were unique to western U.S. railroads.

Interesting vid nonetheless. Jogged a few memories from back in the day.

Interesting. I recognized most of the signs but many signs I didn't recognize. Hand signs can also be regional so what works one place may not work someplace else, even from division to division or terminal to terminal. There are also signs that were unique to specific jobs when you had a regular crew plus there are signs that I know that weren't shown; possibly they were regional to the Coast Division of the SP. On top of that some signs can mean different things depending on the circumstances. Also, many signs would be combined to create a short dialogue telling each other what to do. Those were good days.

1- Ahead
2- Back
3- Stop
4- Next track / Siding ???
5- Crossover / Other side / Release brakes ???
6- Main Track
7- Middle track / This track ???
8- Kick or Highball
9- 3, 2, 1
10- 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
11- Hot box
12- ???
13- Bad order
14- Clear / Stop to clear
15- Get on
16- ???
17- Cut off / cut away
18- Highball / Kick
19- Line switch
20- ???
21- Caboose ???
22- Lead ???
23- 2 ???
24- Crossover
25- ???
26- High Handbrake ???
27- Other side / crossover
28- Get on
29- Behind 3 -or- 3 behind (same thing)
30- Cut behind 3
31- Run around ???
32- Manager ???
33- Drop ???
34- ???
35- Beans / eat
36- Spot / Tie up

Note: 35 and 36 were the most important to rails. <G>



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/13 07:54 by Railbaron.

I once gave a CNW hand signal on the GTW...nothing happened.

In a similar vein, I remember GTW engineers deriding a new brakeman who gave the "wrong" signals because the locomotive had been wyed, so now the front was the back, and vice versa. On CNW, this guy would not have been laughed at at all.

I remember being shown hand/arm signals for every number up to ten (at least), but they never had occasion to take with me.

The mileage you get with your hand signals may vary according to railroad, or even the locality on one railroad.

Carl Shaver
Lombard, IL

Was there a signal a ground crew could give to the caboose to indicate "free riders" on board?

clearstack Wrote:
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> Was there a signal a ground crew could give to the
> caboose to indicate "free riders" on board?


To be honest, I don't think many train, or engine crews really cared if there were "free riders" on the train. The exception to this would be if the rider was on one of the locomotives.


V

SLOCONDR

With lantern or fusee the MOST important signal was lack of sight which was an automatic stop unless there were some special circumstances where the engineer knew there was some temporary obstruction.

Cut in the air was an important one and at least as I remember the front was always the front at least on the Milwaukee designated by the "F" on the cab.

unless I am confused if you gave a lantern or fusee signal as we still did on the Milwaukee in 72-74
then a big circle was backup and an up-down was forward as determined by the F on the engine, not the
orientation or which way it was facing or the location of the engineer. So cars may be on one end or the other and you may be on one end or the other or you may turn the engine but front was front????

the most stylistic lantern was the kick, circle over the head one way. circle the other way and then a rapid up and down.

Bob

robj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With lantern or fusee the MOST important signal
> was lack of sight which was an automatic stop
> unless there were some special circumstances where
> the engineer knew there was some temporary
> obstruction.
>
> Cut in the air was an important one and at least
> as I remember the front was always the front at
> least on the Milwaukee designated by the "F" on
> the cab.
>
> unless I am confused if you gave a lantern or
> fusee signal as we still did on the Milwaukee in
> 72-74
> then a big circle was backup and an up-down was
> forward as determined by the F on the engine, not
> the
> orientation or which way it was facing or the
> location of the engineer. So cars may be on one
> end or the other and you may be on one end or the
> other or you may turn the engine but front was
> front????
>
> the most stylistic lantern was the kick, circle
> over the head one way. circle the other way and
> then a rapid up and down.
>
> Bob


Same exact way on the PE, and SP, in the Los Angeles area, Bob.

Truly a lost art...never to be revived I'm afraid. I was surprised at how many signs I was able to recognize. Hand signs were an important part of railroading, even in the late 70's when I got my start. These days...and this was one of my pet peeves, the radio has become the ONLY means of communication by the newbies. Nothing would piss me off more than a brakeman standing on the front ladder of the engine talking me to a joint...WTF? Use your hands, dude!!! Granted, on the SP, there were different variations of certain signs, depending on what part of the system you hired out on. You could always tell when you were working with a "Boomer".
A funny story was told to me years ago by a certain GEMCO conductor, about a certain San Joaquin "hot head" engineer, who was from Bakersfield, and was augmented to L.A. This is an example of how some hand signs are not universally understood. As the story goes...the conductor WJD and the engineer HLC were not getting along from the start. HC was getting more and more agitated with WD as the day wore on... Now, the daylight "drop sign" that we used in and around L.A., as well as GEMCO, was by putting your thumbs in your armpits and make your arms flap up and down like you had wings...While switching out a ten car handle of auto parts, they were working with hand signals. WD gave HC a drop sign...HC plugged the train, jumped off the engine and ran towards WD. He was planning to knock him out. Why you ask? Well HC being from Bakersfield had never seen that drop sign before and assumed WD was calling him a chicken. "You SOB! Nobody calls me a chicken and gets away with it!" The brakemen inter veined and were able to convince HC that this was indeed a drop sign and for him to get his ass back on the engine before the Trainmaster was summoned. This sort of thing is what made working on the RR back then so much fun. I still laugh when I think of this incident.

spengr80 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now, the daylight
> "drop sign" that we used in and around L.A., as
> well as GEMCO, was by putting your thumbs in your
> armpits and make your arms flap up and down like
> you had wings.

Same on the UP in L.A. and one of the ones I was expecting to see in the video. Guess it was a regional thing.

robj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cut in the air was an important one and at least
> as I remember the front was always the front at
> least on the Milwaukee designated by the "F" on
> the cab.

The "F" was either mounted or painted on the front of the locomotive at the frame which designated the front of the locomotive.



> unless I am confused if you gave a lantern or
> fusee signal as we still did on the Milwaukee in
> 72-74
> then a big circle was backup and an up-down was
> forward as determined by the F on the engine, not
> the
> orientation or which way it was facing or the
> location of the engineer.

You are correct. However, if you gave an engineer a signal that was a circle during daylight hours, he would probably move toward you regardless of the way the engine was facing. Do the same signal with a lantern or a fusee at night and the engineer will back up regardless of the way the engine is facing.



> the most stylistic lantern was the kick, circle
> over the head one way. circle the other way and
> then a rapid up and down.


On the SP we just made the small circle over your head, or at least even with your head, and then brought the lantern, switch list, or fusee or whatever you were using for a signaling device straight down in a vertical position. It could also be construed as a highball when giving another train a roll by.

Some guys were even good enough to speak with their field man at night with their lantern though to the extant you could in the day time.

JDE

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> spengr80 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Now, the daylight
> > "drop sign" that we used in and around L.A., as
> > well as GEMCO, was by putting your thumbs in
> your
> > armpits and make your arms flap up and down
> like
> > you had wings.
>
> Same on the UP in L.A. and one of the ones I was
> expecting to see in the video. Guess it was a
> regional thing.


And the same on the SP.

JDE

I just ran a short switch job using nothing but hand signals, but I realized I still need to do it more often. I don't know very many of the ones on the video, but isn't #12 setout? #16 might be clear out track.

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/13 18:20 by funnelfan.

I taught my wife some hand signs years ago.Earlier this afternoon her mother invited us over for fish tacos.My wife wanted to vacuum the house.After about 5 mins of listening to that noise I gave her signs to shove the lead,tie up, & go to beans.She didn't know "shove the lead' but tie up and go eat caused the plug to be pulled on the machine and we were off to her mom's.I taught her how to count but all she still remembers is 6. The video with the guy doing hand signs reminded me about a rule not to make arm movements that could misunderstood as hand signals.One day while working the East End Switcher at Yermo I was BSing with my switchman,Brad White,who quit the UP and hired out with the Santa Fe.I must have been talking Italian flapping my hands and arms all around when our engineer Susan Webster took off going east.I called her on the radio and asked"Susan where are you going?"She replied,"You gave me an ahead".I was more careful after that.

Hand signs are somewhat regional. In my umpteen odd years of experience on the SP in SF and Oak:

1- doesn't mean a thing
2- come to me

4- slow down, but it was never given without being preceded by the hand sign which started the movement.
5- release the brakes
6- Main Track
7- not used

12- hot brake shoes (assuming they guy is pointing to his feet, which is obscured by that title overlay)

15- not used
16- the lead

18- if used in conjcntioion with 17, it means "were'done with these cars, go to the next track we're going to massage in the direction I'm pointing"
19- Line switch or line the switch back after the engine goes over it.
20- let all the cars go

22- Lead ??? nope, stock, as in cattle
23- ???

25- possibly means line the switch in that direction
26- High Handbrake on the lead end of the car as it approaches you
27- over there; on the lead job at Mission Bay: high handbrake on the trailing end of the car
28- Get on or scoot up the steps so I can get on too

30- cut the three rear cars off
31- Run around ??? (really? I thought he was trying to keep warm)
32- Manager ??? -- not the West Coast/SP sign for brass hat, which is wiping your fingers across your forehead
33- I think this means flip down the derail
34- opposite of 33
35- go to coffee -- beans is done with two hands, thumbs up, alternately moving the hands up and down

"I remember being shown hand/arm signals for every number up to ten (at least), but they never had occasion to take with me."

I can't speak for the Western roads but out East (day or night) a big vertical swipe followed by a big circle would be 10 cars. 5 cars would look like a big "S"....think 5. From there it was all vertical jabs to indicate car lengths. The B&O/Chessie guys I learned from were masters of hand signals. I miss those days.....

There were eastern signs and western signs. The eastern signs were the same as night signs. The SP was "Come to me" or "Go away from me" during the day.

Back then the old heads would say, "You don't need a %*@# radio. Just follow my signs."

There was one, stroking your chin as in whiskers to tell a crew the officials were in the area and of course the old "Pound Salt" sign.



Nudge

spnudge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There were eastern signs and western signs. The
> eastern signs were the same as night signs. The SP
> was "Come to me" or "Go away from me" during the
> day.
>
> Back then the old heads would say, "You don't
> need a %*@# radio. Just follow my signs."
>
> There was one, stroking your chin as in whiskers
> to tell a crew the officials were in the area and
> of course the old "Pound Salt" sign.
>
>
>
> Nudge


Yup, yer right Nudge. Also had the infamous F**K you hand sign........


V

SLOCONDR

We also used this on the MoPac in Arkansas.



pnudge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> There was one, stroking your chin as in whiskers
> to tell a crew the officials were in the area and
> of course the old "Pound Salt" sign.
>
>
>
> Nudge