Railroaders' Nostalgia > Mad Dog Chronicle # 312. End of the NWP or at least the NCRA?

The end of a dream, or the end of wishful thinking, or the end of the NCRA.



I wonder how many of you, particularly those of who live in Northern California know about (ca.) Senate Bill 1029- The Great Redwood Trail Act ?


By the end of 1983 the SP knew that the north end of the NWP was no longer economically viable. even short line economics would not save it. You need at least one hundred cars per mile per year, for an ordinary short line RR to survive, and the NWP between Humbolt Bay and Willits is no ordinary piece of railroad.
One hundred miles of the Eel River Canyon with no carload industries, and, perhaps the most expensive railroad to maintain in the US.

However Brian tried with the Eureka Southern and, went bankrupt. He believed the shippers, mostly Pacific Lumber who could easily load forty cars of lumber a day. I think that Palco just wanted rail as an option to discipline their truck rates. By 1984 they knew truck was the better option for most of .their outbound loads and proved it by their actions. BRRW also was a dreamer and wanted to play train, bankruptcy ended the dream

The trustee tried and failed. Jerry Greg had run KCS, He tried to generate cash by selling surpluses assets. This cleaned up the right of way. However, traffic levels and revenues continued to fall. The laws of railroad physics and a shrinking traffic base were too much

Business interests around Humbolt Bay Along with Pacific Lumber, along with some dreamers, got the State of California to set up the NCRA, However with no mechanism to finance the agency. ( more on this later). So the NCRA acquired a bankrupt railroad with badly deferred maintenance and an ever shrinking traffic base.

After the winter of 1998 it should all have ended. That was twenty years ago! Winter weather and the FRA forced them to stop all train operations basically from Eureka and Willits. This eliminated any source of revenue from freight operations.

NCRA had been using FEMA disaster funds to help support daily operating expenses almost from the start. Now the game was over.

Many of the gory details are addressed in The Northwestern Pacific Railroad. Lifeline of the Redwood Empire. Boom and Bust. 1951 - 2001.
In particular the last 90 pages are full of the details of this series of failures, bad weather and bad luck. If you are interested, this book is well researched , well written, and well illustrated. Angelo Figone the author did a thourogh job. I will try to amplify a bit more.

The fact remains, the NCRA efforts as executed we're doomed from the get go. However, they did not want to face facts as circumstances unfolded.

Perhaps, now they will have to wake up and face reality.

mdo. 3/18/18



Edited 13 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/21 14:35 by mdo.

mdc #312 is complete now

Thanks, mdo, for another excellent MDC. The real reason the NWP could not succeed in the long term between Eureka and Willits is because logging is not a sustainable industry. Trees just take too long to grow. And logging was the only industry the NWP served.

But -- what about the area between Willits and Schellville? There is a real need for rail transit in the North Bay, and there are some businesses there who do ship by rail, although none of them will ever generate more than a few carloads at any one time. To me, passenger rail is worthy of state support. And this includes SMART. So there is a reason to have a NCRA.

Margaret ,

You and I are in basic agreement, and besides, why beat a dead horse. Remember, that so far I am only talking about the north end of the old NWP.
As to Willits south to Schellvile and San Rafael and Larkspur, SMART is a smart and needed passenger service in my opinion. It will be even more useful when it serves Cloverdale. And Larkspur.

However, north of that I have major doubts. Basically from Cloverdale to Willits, it is the same story as Willits to Eureka. First the Russian River canyon has similar geology problems to the Eel river Canyon, Freight business is miniscule and shrinking. Most of the mills have closed. California Western no longer handles any freight. Ridge hill between Ukaih and Willits also has the same, unstable geology. Basically not enough freight revenue potential. Too much maintenance expense. Gravel and Garbage movements ???

Interesting to hear about the recent NWP book. I've been curious about any JLY stories that might be in there.

When I hear about the lackluster advance of humanity to the Eureka area it seems to fit with the area's moniker of 'the Lost Coast'. Nice beer but not so nice for the local economy. Also of note was Ulysses S. Grant being assigned to an Army expedition to the Eureka area around the 1850's. He was so disgusted with the area that he literally walked away, eventually finding a ride on a ship and landing back in New York City with no money. Eventually finding his way back home, later to be recalled to the US Army during the Civil War.

t4p.

That book has lots of quotes from Mr Lynch. (And, one or two from me). Lynch was the NWP Division Engineer at the time of the 1964 flood He was at Island Mountain and watched as the Island Mtn. Bridge washed away.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/18 13:32 by mdo.

Tried to locate a description of the bridges washing away, Mr Lynch is not known for being verbose. Here's the best I can find in a post about something else:

JLY:
The 200ft truss and the 30 ft plate girder span just out of T-27 was the first of this structure to go. The water was about 8 ft below top of rail and the large trees and other drift in the river lodged into the truss and floated the bridge from the piers at about 11:00 am on 12/22/1964. The second 200 ft truss and the 100 ft plate girder went in to the river when the pier between them failed at 1:30pm 12/22/64. remember this section failure vividly as I watched it go. That marked the end of restoration mode and the beginning of survival mode.

Date: 08/07/14 23:07
Aftermath of 1978 NWP Island Mtn. Tunnel Fire.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3488083,page=1

and:

JLY:
Interesting and historical pictures each with a a historical significance.
Photo 1.
Stood at this exact spot and watched the two 200 ft trusses and the 100 ft girder capsize into the raging Eel River on December 22, 1964. The structural design of the trusses was changed from top loaded chord trusses to the newer 200 ft through trusses for economic reasons. That is the reason for the top extension of piers 2 and 3.
Photo 3.
Shows the quarry shovel and the powder house for the Island Mt. Quarry still there.
Photo 4.
Photo of the exact spot the NWP came back together in June of 1965. The two easterly 200 ft trusses and the suporthig pier was lost into the river in December of 1864 and as the photo indicates by the silver portion in the center of the bridge where the structures joined. The track panels used on this structure was the last track installed to connect the track from MP 160 to MP 260. In the Red Wood grove just to the south was where the Restoration Picnic was held in late June of 1964.
As stated before 1964 and 1965 were a hell of a year.

Date: 03/16/11 08:03
NWP shots from 1999

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2418742,2419647#msg-2419647

mdo --
Thank you very much for the kind and very informative reply. I know very little ab out the area up there, an d had mistakenly thought that Willits was the northern end of stable land. OK -- Sloverdale is. Thanks!

That NWP book sounds really interesting, and I am very glad that it includes info form JLY and you. Thanks so much for the info about JLY -- I had no idea JLY actually saw the bridge get destroyed! I am so glad he did not perish then!

IMNSHO (I never pretend to be humble -- not one of my virtues, tho am working on it) -- repairing the NWP after the huge 1964 flood was a mistake, and a waste of money that would have been far better spent elsewhere on the SP. I find it almost impossible to believe that a mere about 20 years or so of income from the NWP after that flood even began to pay for more than a small percentage of the cost of repairing the NWP.

mdo --
I would greatly appreciate any info you would be willing to share with us about whether or not I am right about what I have written above about the costs of repairing the NWP vs. the income derived from the NWP in that approximately 20-year period. I am more than willing to admit I am wrong about what I wrote once I see the facts. TIA!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/18 14:15 by Margaret_SP_fan.

Margaret -

You are right about the way things played out. SP needed to invest the money at many other places on the system instead of the NWP. I happened to be Western Division supt. (which made me VP/GM of NWP) when the Island Mountain Tunnel was reopened in 1979. I asked MDO why the railroad was opened instead of simply walking away from everything above Willits at the time. He reminded me that there was too much volume flowing on the NWP for SP to simply walk away from it without a very contentious abandonment proceeding which, based on those volumes, SP would likely not have won. As it turned out almost from the time the tunnel opened, however, not all the volume would come back. The revenues dropped and the operating and maintenance costs skyrocketed.

MDO can fill in details. I had gone to Texas.

rdb

Shippers got used to trucks during the closure and truckers wanted some guarantee for them to keep the flow of trucks moving into the area. No doubt for many truckers, they had to eat a deadhead from the Bay Area to Eureka/Willits/Redding to have the trucks available and they knew once the tunnel opened, they would be competing against the railroad.. again. As it turned out, the NWP lost about half of the business to the trucks, according to your memo, RDB, when you said that once the tunnel opened there was only enough business for one train six days a week out of Eureka. In the Staggers world, the SP probably would have won their case to abandon Willits to Eureka. The tunnel just opened a couple years too early. Then you had the recession of 82-83 which cut that full train six days a week down to half size train 3 days a week.
It was only a matter of time for closure, as MDO said, even short line economics couldn't make it work.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/18 15:56 by WAF.

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting to hear about the recent NWP book.
> I've been curious about any JLY stories that might
> be in there.
>
> When I hear about the lackluster advance of
> humanity to the Eureka area it seems to fit with
> the area's moniker of 'the Lost Coast'. Nice beer
> but not so nice for the local economy. Also of
> note was Ulysses S. Grant being assigned to an
> Army expedition to the Eureka area around the
> 1850's. He was so disgusted with the area that he
> literally walked away, eventually finding a ride
> on a ship and landing back in New York City with
> no money. Eventually finding his way back home,
> later to be recalled to the US Army during the
> Civil War.
>
> t4p.

Bill made a good contribution to Angelo's book as did MDO. Both JLY and MDO saw the NWP at its worse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/18 15:55 by WAF.

RollinB --
Thank you very, very much for the kind and very interesting reply. I had not considered any of the very important local political reasons why the SP did not just abandon the NWP north of Willits. Oh, my.....

I really feel for all the folks and the towns up there in the area the NWP served who depended on logging for their livelihood. It was great while it lasted, but it was inevitably going to come to an end, and the only question was when. At least the folks up there had around 20 years before it all came to an end.

On a happier note: my son and I were on that wonderful NorCal excursion in 1986 on the Eureka Southern, called "The North Coast Daylight". It used the Daylight-painted cars that had been painted and used for the very long excursion the SP 4449 pulled to the 1984 Louisiana World's Fair in New Orleans. That 2-day NorCal trip went from Willits to Eureka and back, with an overnight in eureka, and included one run-by on the first day, up near Eureka, in Fortuna. That excursion was a blast! We saw the freight train that had stopped to exchange crews in Fort Serward, which was about halfway between Willits and Eureka.

The Eureka Southern locomotives were painted in an attractive yellow-and-orange paint scheme, and bore the reporting mark "EUKA", which I rather liked. I am so glad we got to go on that excursion! (Some details of this trip were supplied by my railfan son, who remembers a lot of things I have forgotten, and I am very grateful to him for that. And for giving me the railfan "bug" in the first place! <G> )

OK, I saw this one coming, I asked for it. On reflection my involvement with the NWP predates my railroad career by eight years and probably had something to do with my joining the SP management team in 1968, (See mad dog chronicle # 1). There may. be more than twenty five chronicles which deal with my involvement in NWP affairs, this will not be the last one.

My first actual involvement in the NWP came when I was transfered from the San Antonio Division to the Western Division in June of 1978. For the Island Mountain tunnel fire see mdc # 126, 131.

Just after the tunnel fire, I was involved in alternatives analysis of our options for restoring rail service north tunnel 27. Besides opening the tunnel we also looked at building a new railroad east of Humbolt Bay to connect with the SP somewhere around Redding. This was rejected because of cost and time for permits plus new construction, estimated as three to five years duration. We also looked at a barging operation from Humbolt Bay to San Francisco Bay. Rejected at the time because SP did not have a barge slip in Oakland. And we did not think we could handle all the available traffic in a timely fashion.

Of course our crystal ball was in the shop for repairs at that time, drat it!

If we had known what was to happen to the NWP during the winters of 1981 thru 1983, we should have gone with the barge operation. With what we ultimately spent on trying to keep the railroad thru the Eel River canyon in service, we could have built that new railroad to the east. Believe it or not that new railroad on a somewhat different alignment is still under consideration, cleared for modern double stack container operations. The new connection point would be just north of Gerber. Believe it or not I may live long enough to this line built.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/21 14:45 by mdo.

Just found this post in the search function(Thanks Todd, page 6 search for mdo in authors all dates all forums if you are interested)

Island Mountain
Author: mdo

I spent yesterday at Island Mountain, CA. I had not driven the Island Mountain Road since 1983.

It was over this road that the SP moved four SD 9s in 1978, to get around the Island Mountain Tunnel. The road is not in as good a condition as it was in 1978. Of course we improved this road preparing for the locomotive move and it has been twenty nine years since that effort.

To get there, you leave Garberville, CA., located on US Highway 101, on the Alderpoint Road, heading east, then take the Bell Springs Road to the intersection with the Island Mountain Road. It is partially paved to the Island Mountain Road. From that point, unpaved gravel and dirt, 4 wheel drive is good, and I had it. There are two gates on the Island Mountain Road, there used to be three, one is locked and you need a key or the combination.

It takes about two hours to drive from Garberville to Island Mountain.

On my way back to home I drove south over the Bell Springs road.

We spent three hours around NWP Tunnel 27, lots of bats in the tunnel these days. The railroad is not in service at the present time,and will not be in service for some time to come. However, the sub-grade and the slides and sinks are not nearly as bad a I would have expected.

The last time I drove the Island Mountain road was in 1983, with R D Krebs, then the President of the SP, W J Lacy, the VPO, and the SP Chief Engineer, Harry Berkshire. It was in the dark, It was raining,and we were up in the clouds, and this is a SCARY road, even in daylight, with lots of steep, vertical drop off edges. Krebs was actually scared, he was having kittens. When Krebs was scared, his response was to get mad, and I was the target. At this particular point in time, I was lower than whale manure, in Krebs mind, "and whale manure is at the bottom of the ocean." The next morning we drove back from Garberville, CA, where we had spent the night, to the NWP railroad. This day was the one which Ed Seil called the "Bataan Death March" ( subject of a future Chronicle)

We were looking at the results of two derailments of the same train, which had occurred two days before.

9/7/07
mdo



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/21 14:47 by mdo.

And this's one:

Pages: [ 1 ][ 2 ] [ Next ] Current Page:1 of 2
Date: 08/09/10 17:58
Future of the North End of the NWP
Author: mdo

In today's From The Past is a post by Loleta titled North Coast RR, 1997:
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1228858.

I have been asked many times in the past if I think that the North end of the
NWP will ever be placed back in service. I actually did a consulting job on this in 2007.
Cf: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1487297,page=1

Also see Mad Dog Chronicles #190 thru #205.


Now here is a portion of my report:


Alternatives for rebuilding the NWP as a reliable, all weather Railroad
__________________________________________________________________________



Unfortunately, throughout its history, the NWP has not been a reliable, all weather route since it was completed in September of 1914. Each year it has experienced minor outages lasting anywhere from several hours to several days. There have been several instances of bridge or tunnel failures, usually because of fire where the outage lasted from several months to over a year. During wet years there have been catastrophic outages from major slides, sub grade failures or floods. In 1955 and again in 1964 flooding along the Eel River destroyed over 100 miles of track through the Eel River Canyon. In 1983, a year with over 120 inches of rain in the region, the railroad was out of service for over six months because of the cumulative effects of multiple slides, sinks and washouts.

At the present time the NWP rail line is out of service and has been almost continuously since 1998. When the railroad is restored to service there will be an opportunity to address many of these concerns if the rehabilitation of the track, structures and sub grade issues are given careful attention and the line is upgraded rather than just restored to operation at a minimal level. The major objectives of improved clearances, improved transit time and improved reliability are best addressed as the railroad is restored to service.



Restoration Concerns

It will be much easier and more cost effective to perform this restoration work at the same time that the line is upgraded. Tunnels, bridges and other drainage structure should be upgraded to 286 standards; double stack clearance should be achieved. Particular attention should be paid to the type and amount of drainage and slope grooming work performed both above and below the right of way. Only by completely addressing drainage and de-watering mechanisms will all weather reliability be achieved.

Another concern must be the level of funding budgeted annually for emergency repairs and slow order removal.

The next section will address the specifics of the various elements of the railroad infrastructure.


General maintenance and rehabilitation concerns


Sub grade and the unstable geology of the Eel River - Slides and Sinks

This information is taken from the NWP maintenance records and my 1983 track charts.
Recent inspection of the NWP right of way for a mile north of tunnel 27 indicated that many of these problem areas have gotten significantly worse in the last five years

The major sub-grade problems are concentrated between a point just north of the station of Dos Rios and the north end of the Scotia Bluffs, a distance of 100 miles. There are at least 28 separate trouble spots ranging from several hundred feet to well over a mile. Some of these locations have been active since the completion of the railroad in 1914. There are other minor locations, which occasionally give trouble in addition to this listing of the major trouble locations.

Here is a sample of the problems that were occurring in the five miles north of Dos Rios taken from my 1983 track book. These are just a sample. There are many worse locations further to the north.

Granite Slide, just west of Dos Rios, has been stable in recent years, but must be contoured frequently to keep the drainage water diverted and to prevent saturation of the native material.

Berger Creek Slide, 1000 feet long north of Dos Rios at Mile Post (MP) 167, is a major
problem. A 200 foot sink area is followed by a 600 foot hump area, then a150 foot sink.
It all slides toward the river, the present track is out of alignment about 5 feet and
humped about 15 feet. In 1982 these two sinks required weekly surfacing because the
track was moving 2 to 3 inches down and 4 to 5 inches out of line weekly.

At Deer Lodge Slide a sink 150 feet long required track surfacing two to three times
Weekly. Movement was 3 to 4 inches down and 2 to 4 inches out of line each week in 1982.

Three-quarter mile north is a 400 foot sink on a fill. It required surfacing at least once a week in 1982, account movement down and out of line 1 to 2 each week. In addition the shoulders required build up on the river side and fill on the hill side for drainage.

Woodman has a 100 foot sink which was moving 4 to 5 inches both out of line and down each week in 1982, requiring resurfacing and lining 3 to 4 times each week.

Tunnel #19, 1.5 miles north of Woodman at MP 172.7, is daylighted. Loose rock on the uphill side causes frequent slides.

It important to note here that there are several areas of similar unstable sub grade and surrounding unstable geology along the Russian River between Cloverdale and Ukiah.


Levies and Dikes

The NWP right of way and track structure is constructed on the tops of levies and dikes along the shore of Humboldt Bay between Fairhaven and Fortuna, North of Lolita, along the Petaluma River and the northern Shore of San Francisco Bay between Novato and Lombard. In many cases these levies are in poor repair and the armoring rip rap has failed or eroded away. These issues must be addressed when the line is opened for freight service.



Bridges

There are 40 steel bridges along the NWP between Fairhaven and Lombard. These bridges range from 30 foot deck girders to 600 foot three span thru trusses. The bridge over the Van Duzen River is comprised of 3 – 160 foot thru pin trusses, a 480 foot bridge constructed in 1930. There are four movable spans.
Many of these bridges were constructed in the early 1900s and predate the completion of the railroad in 1914. There is a 198 foot thru truss across the Russian River at MP 67.6 at Healdsburg that dates from 1901. This particular bridge has both severe clearance and severe weight restrictions. Most of the bridges along Outlet creek between Willits and Dos Rios date from 1910 and 1911.

Almost no bridge maintenance has been performed since the SP conveyed the NWP to the shortline operators.
Prior to that time there was little money spent on NWP bridges.
Therefore, it is to be expected that most if not all of the bridges will demand attention.

All should be raised to 286 weight capacity. Some of the thru truss structures will not clear double stacks and this must be corrected.






Major Trestles (over 300 feet long)

There are 18 wooden pile trestles ranging in length from 304 feet to almost 1600 feet in length, most are of the open deck type, rather than the more preferred, more modern, ballast deck type, of which there are only two. The comments on lack of maintenance or that they have recieved only minor maintenance, in the paragraph on bridges, applies equally to the major trestles. Many will have weight restrictions and would be presently under slow orders of 10 mph if the line were in operation today. Most of these structures are in need of major rehabilitation and in some cases, replacement.



Shorter Trestles and other Drainage Structures, such as Box Culverts and Pipes

These minor drainage structures are almost too numerous to describe. In some cases there are in excess of ten of these minor drainage structures per mile. It is a rare mile that does not have at least one or two. Many of these are either partially or even completely blocked. These conditions invite washouts. All of these structures need maintenance and many may also need to be replaced.




Tunnels

There are 36 tunnels on the line between Eureka and Lombard. These tunnels range in length from #23, Spy Rock, 106 feet, to #27, Island Mountain, 4313 feet long. Several have suffered either partial or complete collapse, most of the remaining tunnels need at least some work. At this point it is not known whether any of these tunnels will clear modern double stacks. No rehabilitation estimates will be meaningful until each one receives a careful, thorough inspection. As a side note, the Coos Bay Branch in Oregon was recently taken out of service because of deterioration of three tunnels of similar age and construction to the NWP tunnels. The current estimate to repair these three Coos Bay Branch tunnels exceeds 23 million dollars.









Tie Condition

The NWP uses wood ties almost exclusively for the entire railroad. Using a standard 3200 ties to a mile and calculating the number of ties only on the main line, from Fairhaven to Lombard, a rail distance of just over 300 miles, there are in excess of 960000 ties in the NWP main line. Average tie life is a nominal 25 years. Due to lack of maintenance it be safely assumed that close to 90 percent of the ties have reached the end of their useful life. Very few ties have been replaced by the NCRA and the predecessor short lines. The last major tie job was performed by the SP just prior to the sale of the north end of the NWP to the Eureka Southern. At that time approximately 20 percent of the ties were replaced. General maintenance practice on the SP was to replace between 20 to 25 percent of the ties every five to six years. This would imply that at least half of the ties in the NWP main line were in excess of 15 years old even in 1983. By implication, these ties are now in excess of 40 years of age and will need to be replaced.

While it is not considered good maintenance practice to change out more than one third of the ties at one time unless you are converting from wood to concrete, in this case, if speed limits are to be increased, there may be no other choice.



Ballast Condition

The maintenance practice on the NWP has been to use ballast that is produced locally. This has been mostly river rock from either the Van Duzen River at Alton or from the Russian River at Healdsburg. While this has been convenient and relatively low cost ballast, it in not considered good rock for main line usage by the class one railroads as it is not angular and does not key up well.

Because of the passage of time and the lack of funds, there are presently many locations along the NWP main lines that need significant applications of fresh ballast. However I am unable to ascertain how extensive this work will be without significant field inspections.



Rail Condition

The rail in the NWP main lines date mostly from the 1950s and 1960s. Rail weights range from 90 pounds to 113 pounds to the yard; most of this is jointed rail. There is some 132 pound welded rail, mostly second hand and mostly installed south of Willits.

Less than 15 percent of the rail is welded. While the rail is generally old, the good news is that it still has some useful life. Rail wear is largely a function of traffic levels and traffic has been low for many years.


Passing Tracks and Support Yards

With the exception of the yards at Willits and Schellville there is a serious lack of support trackage left on the NWP. On the north end, what was there in the past was mostly salvaged by the bankruptcy trustee prior to the formation of the NCRA To run even a low level of service, a number of passing sidings will need to be constructed. If modern double stack trains are to be operated, these will need to be in the neighborhood of 8000 feet long. Location and spacing can best be determined by a simulation analysis, once traffic patterns and schedules have been established.

For planning purposes, I have made an arbitrary assumption that there will be a minimum of one 8000 foot siding every 25 miles. This implies that at least 12 new sidings will be constructed during the rehabilitation process. In reality, this may actually need to be doubled, providing a passing track every 12 miles. Therefore, between 12 and 25 sidings of 8000 feet need to be added to any rehabilitation estimates.


(are you still awake Carol?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/18 19:18 by mdo.

mdo --
Thank you VERY, VERY much for this incredible and detailed and excellent post! I learned a lot, and I really appreciate that. This one post alone is worth years of Trainorders subscriptions, and all of them are priceless. Thank you.

Everyone who reads Trainorders is really honored that you wrote and write your Mad Dog Chronicles and post them here.

mdo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Believe
> it or not that new railroad on a somewhat
> different alignment is still under consideration,
> cleared for modern double stack container
> operations. The new connection point would be
> just north of Gerber. Believe it or not I may
> live long enough to [see] this line built.

I very much doubt it will ever get built. But I hope you keep on living in hopes that it will.

Best regards,

Rob L.

mdo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...With what we
> ultimately spent on trying to keep the railroad
> thru the Eel River canyon in service, we could
> have built that new railroad to the east. Believe
> it or not that new railroad on a somewhat
> different alignment is still under consideration,
> cleared for modern double stack container
> operations. The new connection point would be
> just north of Gerber. Believe it or not I may
> live long enough to this line built.


Any mileage or grade comparisons between the line to Willits vs the new line to Gerber?

These are. Hard to make unless you pick a meaningful common point somewhere on the Up system . Say you pick Roseville. New route is roughly one hundred miles shorter..

JLY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WAF Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TCnR Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Interesting to hear about the recent NWP
> book.
> > > I've been curious about any JLY stories that
> > might
> > > be in there.
> > >
> > > When I hear about the lackluster advance of
> > > humanity to the Eureka area it seems to fit
> > with
> > > the area's moniker of 'the Lost Coast'. Nice
> > beer
> > > but not so nice for the local economy. Also
> of
> > > note was Ulysses S. Grant being assigned to
> an
> > > Army expedition to the Eureka area around the
> > > 1850's. He was so disgusted with the area
> that
> > he
> > > literally walked away, eventually finding a
> > ride
> > > on a ship and landing back in New York City
> > with
> > > no money. Eventually finding his way back
> home,
> > > later to be recalled to the US Army during
> the
> > > Civil War.
> > >
> > > t4p.
> >
> > Bill made a good contribution to Angelo's book
> as
> > did MDO. Both JLY and MDO saw the NWP at its
> > worse.
>
> Wes, You are surely right that MDO and I saw the
> NWP at its worst.
> I did however make two historical trips as
> Division Engineer on two Business Car trips from
> Shellwille and return one on the Car Sunset in
> Sept 1964 and the other on the Car Stanford in
> early Dec. 1964. The first with DJR and the second
> with BFB.
> The first trip with DJR was an overnighter at
> Eureka and a return to Novoto where the GO people
> detrained on the reverse trip. Upon detraining DJR
> remarked to MR.C.E.Neal that he had never seen
> the NWP in finer condition than this trip. Keep up
> the good work Charlie.
> The second trip was on the Car Stanford with BFB
> to attend the aniversary party sponsored by the
> Greater Eureka Chamber of Commerce to celebrate
> to golden aniversary of the driving of the golden
> spike for the completion of the NWP.
> Mr. BFB was the keyddnote speakler at the Dinner
> and made remarks about the weeather proofing of
> the NWP into an all weather RR and was now weather
> proofed.
> These two trips assured me that the NWP after 50
> years had tamed Mother Nature and the RR was here
> to stay.
The interesting sequel to this story is two short weeks later after the weather proofing statements you not only could not run a train down the Eel Rvier there were places from experience you could only crawl across the damaged track locations.
I have always maintained that I had been informed by the highest authority of the SP that the NWP upon my arrival was in the best physical condition in history. I sure did not leave it in that condition.