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Railroaders' Nostalgia > CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?


Date: 01/27/19 02:19
CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: norm1153

Recently I had a conversation with a retired engineer who worked for the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy RR in the late 50's and beyond until his retirement.  He has claimed that locomotive engineers only operated a freight train for a maximum of 100 miles, and a passenger train for 150 miles.  Can anyone confirm this (or not)? 



Date: 01/27/19 03:52
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: dan

crew districts were a holdover from steam days, sounds right



Date: 01/27/19 11:44
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: PCCRNSEngr

Back then in freight service 100 miles and passenger service 150 miles equal 8 hours. If you ran over those miles overtime would be calculated from your total miles.   On a 125 mile run overtime would start after the 10th hour on duty. If your run was 125 miles you would be paid 10 hours straight time even if you were less than 10 hours on duty. 



Date: 01/27/19 13:58
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: norm1153

OK, thanks for the replies.  Appreciate it!

 



Date: 01/27/19 16:32
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: czephyr17

Those were not maximum miles that could be worked.  They were what was referred to as "basic days", equivalent to 8 hours that served as the basis for computation of wages and overtime, as PCC explained very well.  Over the years the basic day mileage has been increased; the last I was aware several years ago I believe it was 132 miles, but perhaps it has changed since then.  



Date: 01/27/19 19:48
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: BN4364

130 mile basic day. 



Date: 01/28/19 06:14
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: LocoPilot750

When I started firing west out of Emporia, KS, we went to three different places. Newton was only 75 miles, so they paid us a minimum basic day of 100 miles we went there. Ark City was either 119 or 131, depending whether we went douglas sub, or  "Via Mulvane". If we went to Wellington, it was 113 miles.



Date: 01/28/19 11:14
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: czephyr17

BN4364 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 130 mile basic day. 

Thanks.  I don't know why I was thinking 132.



Date: 01/28/19 13:44
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: spnudge

I can fill in some blanks:. for the Coast, SP, Freight

An engineer was paid 100 miles when he stepped onto the engine. That computed down to OT after 8 hours. (each carrier had their own agreement provisions.) Now, if you were on a district that was 152 miles, (Wat.Jct to SLO) you went on OT after 12' 10" on duty. Well when the hours of service finally got down to 12 hours, it didn't pay any OT. You were dead on the law.

The long haul passenger jobs were SF to SLO, 252 miles, one way. Thats 2 1/2 days pay in 5' 08".

Now, from SLO to Santa Barbara it was 119 miles. You went on OT after 9' 31".  When we ran thru SBA, the mileage changed SLO to LA, (A yard) 218 miles. To C yard, 220 miles and To the Shops, 222 miles.  You can see you were dead before you ever got close to OT.

On passenger we were paid the mileage but we went on OT, after the published running time.  The best job on the system was the Del Monte, #126-#141, SF to Monterey and back. 

You would start out (Day 1) at the City, 100 miles to Watsonville. Then you would start your second 100 miles Wat. Jct. to Monterey and return, OT after 8 hours. (continious time until you passed Wat. Jct going back to the City, Day 2). Then you would get paid another  100 miles until you tied up in the City that afternoon. You earned 3 almost 4 days pay in a roundtrip. 


Now, you have to remember, with all of DJRs train offs he wound up with runs that cost the SP a lot more to operate. Take between SLO & SBA. There were 3 regular passenger pool turns. 98 & 99, 75 & 76, and 90 & 91. Okay you would be called, say for #98  SLO to SBA. Then you would work back on #75, SBA to SLO. Its been so long I can't remember which train was next but there was an assigned crews for 3 different pool turns on passenger.  As we lost the Lark & then the Mail Train we had to come up with a different way to run the pool.  Well, the old heads wanted to keep #98 down to SBA and #99 back up to SLO. It was called the "Thin Wallet" job because it didn't even pay the minium daily rate. That was the way until Atk finally took over the crews.

Also with the SP we had different rates. Valley rate or Mountain Rate plus the weight on drivers. 

A person could right a book just getting paid on the SP



Nudge

 



Date: 01/28/19 17:22
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: SanJoaquinEngr

spnudge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can fill in some blanks:. for the Coast, SP,
> Freight
>
> An engineer was paid 100 miles when he stepped
> onto the engine. That computed down to OT after 8
> hours. (each carrier had their own agreement
> provisions.) Now, if you were on a district that
> was 152 miles, (Wat.Jct to SLO) you went on OT
> after 12' 10" on duty. Well when the hours of
> service finally got down to 12 hours, it didn't
> pay any OT. You were dead on the law.
>
> The long haul passenger jobs were SF to SLO, 252
> miles, one way. Thats 2 1/2 days pay in 5' 08".
>
> Now, from SLO to Santa Barbara it was 119 miles.
> You went on OT after 9' 31".  When we ran thru
> SBA, the mileage changed SLO to LA, (A yard) 218
> miles. To C yard, 220 miles and To the Shops, 222
> miles.  You can see you were dead before you ever
> got close to OT.
>
> On passenger we were paid the mileage but we went
> on OT, after the published running time.  The
> best job on the system was the Del Monte,
> #126-#141, SF to Monterey and back. 
>
> You would start out (Day 1) at the City, 100 miles
> to Watsonville. Then you would start your second
> 100 miles Wat. Jct. to Monterey and return, OT
> after 8 hours. (continious time until you passed
> Wat. Jct going back to the City, Day 2). Then you
> would get paid another  100 miles until you tied
> up in the City that afternoon. You earned 3 almost
> 4 days pay in a roundtrip. 
>
>
> Now, you have to remember, with all of DJRs train
> offs he wound up with runs that cost the SP a lot
> more to operate. Take between SLO & SBA. There
> were 3 regular passenger pool turns. 98 & 99, 75 &
> 76, and 90 & 91. Okay you would be called, say for
> #98  SLO to SBA. Then you would work back on #75,
> SBA to SLO. Its been so long I can't remember
> which train was next but there was an assigned
> crews for 3 different pool turns on passenger. 
> As we lost the Lark & then the Mail Train we had
> to come up with a different way to run the pool. 
> Well, the old heads wanted to keep #98 down to SBA
> and #99 back up to SLO. It was called the "Thin
> Wallet" job because it didn't even pay the minium
> daily rate. That was the way until Atk finally
> took over the crews.
>
> Also with the SP we had different rates. Valley
> rate or Mountain Rate plus the weight on
> drivers. 
>
> A person could right a book just getting paid on
> the SP
>
>
>
> Nudge
>
>  Yard jobs paid a daily rate 8 hours... and then overtime after 8.
Work trains paid overtime after 8 hours but was a lower rate than a local freight job.

Through freight did pay valley and mountain rate.  the Bakersfield freight job from Los Angeles paid mountain rate..  about 10 dollars more than valley rate.

through freight jobs paid ITD (initial terminal delay" after 1 hour and 15 mins.  FTD (final terminal delay) started paying when you hit the yard board until you signed off duty.  If a through freight train set out and picked up a 3 or more stations the rate reverted to local freight rate which was higher than through freight rate. 

Other arbitaries included an engineer was paid 1 hour for setting out or picking up a unit.  1 hour for supplying engines with ice, water or paper towels.

The freight pools were regulated between 3,800 to 4,200 miles a month. Passenger pools were regulated at 4,800 miles a month. Passenger mileage were higher because the lesser rate and the much faster schedule s.


Yes the SP was a money maker !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/19 20:21 by SanJoaquinEngr.



Date: 01/29/19 18:16
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: spnudge

Thanks for the "rest of the story".

When you think about it, it was a wonder we ever got paid. It took months trying to get a 50 mile lap back, being used as helper, off the chain gang, etc. 

I forgot about one thing. If you had a Fireman they took $4.00 away from you. I can't forget people like  C K THorne bitching and moaning about it.  He had  Al Gray as his fireman on the east peddler, called right behind me on the LA. I went back inside , with Als OK, and had the crew dispatcher switch my space number for a fireman with Al. We flipped a coin to see who was going to drive first and who was going to rest up. (I won). At SBA, we switched places and I took it into LA. Its funny, Thorne was called 15 minutes behind me and he died at Chats. We were tied up and in the feathers by then. oh. Al & I caught the Zipper back that afternoon right on our 8 hrs.




Nudge



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/19 16:47 by spnudge.



Date: 02/02/19 09:03
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: engineerinvirginia

Even though the basic day for through freight is 130 miles....it remains 100 miles for yard and local assignments....also for work trains which may also claim 150 miles if they didn't get any overtime on 100 miles....(My road at least.)



Date: 02/06/19 03:34
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: AussieGWAdriver

We have none of this milage stuff here down under.

Years ago I did a book off shift from Adelaide to Tarcoola on The Ghan - 725km or 450 miles in a rostered 12 hour shift. Most of the book off jobs for the different railroads working out of Adelaide are betwen around 190 miles (Port Augusta) and 335 miles (Broken Hill)

On the relay working from Adelaide to Darwin sometimes we can occasionally do close to 800km (496 miles) in our 8hr rotation travelling non stop at around 110km/h - 68 mph.

Interesting to see how it is done in the US.

Justin



Date: 02/06/19 09:43
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: Chico43

spnudge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I forgot about one thing. If you had a Fireman
> they took $4.00 away from you. I can't forget
> people like  C K THorne bitching and moaning
> about it. 
>
> Nudge

I found an easy solution to that problem. At the first sign of any pissing and sniviling I would get out my wallet and offer them the 4 bucks and that usually shut them up.



Date: 02/06/19 11:22
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: engineerinvirginia

AussieGWAdriver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have none of this milage stuff here down
> under.
>
> Years ago I did a book off shift from Adelaide to
> Tarcoola on The Ghan - 725km or 450 miles in a
> rostered 12 hour shift. Most of the book off jobs
> for the different railroads working out of
> Adelaide are betwen around 190 miles (Port
> Augusta) and 335 miles (Broken Hill)
>
> On the relay working from Adelaide to Darwin
> sometimes we can occasionally do close to 800km
> (496 miles) in our 8hr rotation travelling non
> stop at around 110km/h - 68 mph.
>
> Interesting to see how it is done in the US.
>
> Justin

The basic day doesn't affect the actual mileage of a run except that if it is more than the basic day, it pays more. And it extends the time you have to run to make overtime. Normally overtime is 8 hours....or in miles 100 or 130 depending on the job....if your route is more than the basic miles you have to run the extra miles off before overtime commences. You run them off at 16.25mph for the purpose of computation....so on a run of 195 miles lets say.....you have 65 extra miles to burn up...65 miles divided by 16.25 is 4 hours...so you have to run at total of 12 hours to start overtime. But the four hours past the first 8 do pay pro rata...or the same as your basic rate expressed in dollars per hour. Of course we cannot perform service past 12 hours so any time after that we are twiddling our thumbs waiting for a van to come if we have not made it to the end of the run, but twiddling them at time and a half rate! And lastly do understand the concept of the basic day wherein we do not come to work without at LEAST the basic day. That is a benefit our unions have achieved...seeing as how the company sees us a full time employees, we think it proper to pay us full time wages....if I finish up in 7 because I am super efficient....I still get 8!



Date: 02/06/19 20:03
Re: CB&Q Maximum Engineer Miles in 50's, 60's?
Author: Trainhand

2 thoughts.
1 Overtime should be paid if you tie up on the hours of service and have to wait for transportation,regardless of mileage.
2.  The $4.00/day a fireman cost the engineer, I knew one engineer who told his son to go fire for somebody else he was costing him too much.



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