Railroaders' Nostalgia > Was I Wrong?

I was a car foreman for SCL at Sanford,Fl. from October 1972
to March 1979.
Sanford was on the Jacksonville-Tampa exACL mainline.
I had carmen working at the RIP shop as well as the small
Rands train yard.Several labororers that their main job was
to service locomotives,for SCL freight units as well as our
passenger trains.At other times they did odds and ends jobs.
I have one machinist,one electrician and one apprenice
electrician.As you can we were a small operation.But our
main job was to service the six passenger trains.

Our passenger trains made regular stops at Sanford.The
trains stopped on the mainline and were under the control
of the dispatcher.The engine crew was changed,locomotives
fueled and watered and passenger cars watered.

During the servicing the train was under blue flag protection
provided by my shop forces.In other words under my direction.
One time the locomotives were not spotted correctly to reach
the fuel hoses.Therefore,under my direction,I had my men remove
the blue flag and had the train move about thirty feet.Boy,was that
wrong! Along comes a very POed contuctor asking me why "I"
had the train moved.I told him.He said I am the boss and "you"
can't move the train unless I OK it.I told him it was under shop
rule and we could move the train if need be.He said I should
have told him I had to move the train.(My BIG mistake).He said
he would call the super and he would tell us who was boss.
Not "me".

Uncle Joe
Seffner,Fl.

You may have had the right to "work" on his train under blue flag rules. But by rule, HE is the boss of that train. Depending on where the train was sitting, it's HIS track authority or permission. I'd say you were wrong.

Joe

Safety measures are there to prevent something from happening. Removal or lack of them does not equal permission to operate them.

Just because you unlocked the door to your house does not give me permission to enter it.

Who moved the train? Was he a qualified engineer? You might have had the right to move the POWER but not the entire train. A little diplomacy would have gone a long way here by contacting the conductor and working with him and had a qualified engineer move the train.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/19 16:49 by Railbaron.

I have been in a situation where we had to move the power. So we would contact the conductor and inform him that we were going to uncouple and respot the power for servicing.  This after we uncoupled he could go back to handling the train servicing and passenger movements. Then we would contact him when we were ready to recouple on the train and get hs permission. once recoupled we were under his direction.
It only makes sense to contact all persons working on and about the train to prevent any injuries.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

I agree with railbaron. An engineer should have moved the train, AFTER contacting the conductor. This probably resulted in a time claim for somebody. If he ever got paid is another matter.

This was posted here about a year ago, and got just about the same replies.....

It does say "...dropped the flags and had the train pull up..." which sounds to me like he had the train engineer move the train.

Three or four of us last time said that you should have told the conductor what you were going to do before you did it, as there could have been passengers getting onto cars from step boxes when the train moved.
G

You were not wrong. The engineer was, and that's who the conductor should have reprimanded.

-John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/19 06:35 by LarryDoyle.

This may be different having worked on a tourist railroad, but what if someones hands were in a bad spot changing a brake shoe? Or someone was crawling around adjusting a disk brake under a car? The way I was taught was nothing can be done by anyone and that includes coupling to, uncoupling from any and all Blue Flagged equipment. The person who placed the flag and the other crafts that placed a flag also can be the only one to remove it, or a person designated by the placer to remove it. Dynamiting the air by cutting off power could have catastrophic results, as well as even a slight movement of the train while coupling or uncoupling with men and equipment under and between cars. I was taught to never touch Blue Flagged equipment. Period.

Posted from iPhone

LarryDoyle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You were not wrong. The engineer was, and that's
> who the conductor should have reprimanded.
>
> -John

i agree, once the blue flags were dropped, the hoghead should have notified the conductor who would have notified the ENTIRE CREW that they needed to move the train..........

66



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/19 06:39 by goneon66.

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LarryDoyle Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You were not wrong. The engineer was, and
> that's
> > who the conductor should have reprimanded.
> >
> > -John
>
> i agree, once the blue flags were dropped, the
> hoghead should have notified the conductor who
> would have notified the ENTIRE CREW that they
> needed to move the train..........
>
> 66

They way I read the OP's post, his crew moved the train, not the engineer. If you reread it, he stated the engine crew was changed during the stop, so it is quite possible there was no engineer onboard the locomotive at that time.

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> goneon66 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > LarryDoyle Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > You were not wrong. The engineer was, and
> > that's
> > > who the conductor should have reprimanded.
> > >
> > > -John
> >
> > i agree, once the blue flags were dropped, the
> > hoghead should have notified the conductor who
> > would have notified the ENTIRE CREW that they
> > needed to move the train..........
> >
> > 66
>
> They way I read the OP's post, his crew moved the
> train, not the engineer. If you reread it, he
> stated the engine crew was changed during the
> stop, so it is quite possible there was no
> engineer onboard the locomotive at that time.

OK.  Whoever was at the controls of the locomotive should have had a clear understanding with the conductor of the movement.

LarryDoyle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jst3751 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > goneon66 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > LarryDoyle Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > You were not wrong. The engineer was, and
> > > that's
> > > > who the conductor should have reprimanded.
> > > >
> > > > -John
> > >
> > > i agree, once the blue flags were dropped,
> the
> > > hoghead should have notified the conductor
> who
> > > would have notified the ENTIRE CREW that they
> > > needed to move the train..........
> > >
> > > 66
> >
> > They way I read the OP's post, his crew moved
> the
> > train, not the engineer. If you reread it, he
> > stated the engine crew was changed during the
> > stop, so it is quite possible there was no
> > engineer onboard the locomotive at that time.
>
> OK.  Whoever was at the controls of the
> locomotive should have had a clear understanding
> with the conductor of the movement.

Why are you yelling?

While you were accusing the engineer, my point was that if it has indeed been the engineer, there would have been a much larger problem than what occurred, since the engineer must always refer to the conductor for any movement of the train, while the mechanical dept was merely wrong in doing something they had no authorization to do. Also, there was apparently NO ONE at the controls of the locomotive so a crew member of the mechanical went up there briefly to effect the movement.
 

well if step boxes were out and passengers were moving on and off, a few whistles i am sure were done?  

no radios?