Eastern Railroad Discussion > CSX "Corridor of the Future" -- DC to Miami

From the Passenger Trains discussion board:
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,1396375

THAT LINK'S FIRST THREAD has another LINK to a feature article just published in the Fredericksburg VA newspaper.


CSX is seeking a "Federally funded" rebuild of the entire RF&P/A-Line corridor from Washington DC to Miami FL -- with, ultimately (--and get this--) 4 tracks (!) between DC and Richmond VA, then 3 tracks south of Richmond. (SAY WHAT?) And, did we read that projection wrong?

Let the flames begin, folks. CSX already has a second track south of Petersburg VA (but most of it was torn up/removed in the mid-to-late 1980s in cost-cutting efforts [which now cause more line congestion-delay problems than they ever solved] to Rocky Mount NC, and continuing south of RM, NC the same: which would, of course, be the first step in such a MASSIVE, MAJOR project.

So the questions become: ---is this for real? ---and, how come we haven't heard of this before now? ---we've heard for the past 6 or 7 years they were "looking at/studying" the third track between DC and Richmond, and the S-Line rebuild south of Petersburg. Now comes this project -- perhaps out of the blue -- and how will that affect the S-Line rebuild plan, if at all? --and even if this is for real, how many years will it be (presuming funding is approved) before the first dirt is turned?

Read the Fredericksburg VA newspaper article, then think of the implications of what it would take to make this thing a reality. ('Boggles the mind, doesn't it?)

Why flame? Would you rather see the money go to interstate expansion? The federal government at least appears to have the beginnings of a nascent understanding that highway congestion is getting to be a huge issue, and that the solution isn't always to widen the interstates. 4 tracks to Richmond is a natural extension of the Northeast corridor...this looks like something was down the line, say like in 15 years, but for projects this big the timelines are huge.

It is CSX's idea so it must be a really bad idea.

PittsburghMike Wrote:
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> Why flame? Would you rather see the money go to
> interstate expansion? The federal government at
> least appears to have the beginnings of a nascent
> understanding that highway congestion is getting
> to be a huge issue, and that the solution isn't
> always to widen the interstates. 4 tracks to
> Richmond is a natural extension of the Northeast
> corridor...this looks like something was down the
> line, say like in 15 years, but for projects this
> big the timelines are huge.

All points you make: I agree with. "Why flame?"---that suggestion was put there only to invite comments, and like so many TO.COM posts on railroad expansion plans often do, many people here often bring comments to print that point out all the negative aspects of what can and/or can't be accomplished, "this is CSX" notions, and so forth. However, sometimes the seemingly negative takes on such projects actually spur others [here] to go into some detail on what CAN be done to make such gradious plans a reality. And that's what the "Let the flames begin" was all about: simply to spur conversation, pro and con, and perhaps someone at CSX might actually read this thread and be inspired to create even more realistic expectataions that can be accomplished for less money and in fewer years than what's already being planned.

Well then, perhaps "flame on" wasn't the correct way to put it. I would, though, be interested in hearing comments on realistic ways that both CSX lines (the current A-Line and the former S-Line) south of Richmond could be set up to handle that much "expected" traffic increases in the coming decades. Now, that would be an interesting development, and one that is already nearing --at least-- the half-way point: the S-Line rebuild [Collier Yard/Petersburg VA to Norlina NC; Richmond-Raleigh corridor] is already set to commence within the next 3-5 years at most.

rbx551985 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PittsburghMike Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why flame? Would you rather see the money go to
> > interstate expansion? The federal government at
> > least appears to have the beginnings of a
> nascent
> > understanding that highway congestion is
> getting
> > to be a huge issue, and that the solution isn't
> > always to widen the interstates. 4 tracks to
> > Richmond is a natural extension of the
> Northeast
> > corridor...this looks like something was down
> the
> > line, say like in 15 years, but for projects
> this
> > big the timelines are huge.
>
> All points you make: I agree with. "Why
> flame?"---that suggestion was put there only to
> invite comments, and like so many TO.COM posts on
> railroad expansion plans often do, many people
> here often bring comments to print that point out
> all the negative aspects of what can and/or can't
> be accomplished, "this is CSX" notions, and so
> forth. However, sometimes the seemingly negative
> takes on such projects actually spur others to go
> into some detail on what CAN be done to make such
> gradious plans a reality. And that's what the
> "Let the flames begin" was all about: simply to
> spur conversation, pro and con, and perhaps
> someone at CSX might actually read this thread and
> be inspired to create even more realistic
> expectataions that can be accomplished for less
> money and in fewer years than what's already being
> planned.
>
> Well then, perhaps "flame on" wasn't the correct
> way to put it. I would, though, be interested in
> hearing comments on realistic ways that both CSX
> lines (the current A-Line and the former S-Line)
> south of Richmond could be set up to handle that
> much "expected" traffic increases in the coming
> decades. Now, that would be an interesting
> development, and one that is already nearing --at
> least-- the half-way point: the S-Line rebuild
> is already set to commence within the next 3-5
> years at most.

Rebuilding the S-Line to add capacity makes a great deal of sense because of the following:

Amtrak/VDOT/NCDOT are already in talks to fund it.

It makes better use of the investment between Raleigh and Hamlet

It gives CSX a better route between Atlanta and points north. Growth on the I85 corridor has been greater than that on the I95 corridor.

Lets hope it (growth in capacity anywhere) happens.

Great, let's see some through trains through Raleigh, like those I saw in the 70's growing up with SCL.

Could someone mention just the major cities this route will takes from DC to Miami. I'd like to follow it on my SPV's map books.

DC
Richmond, VA
Rocky Mount, NC
Florence, SC
Charleston, SC
Savannah, GA
Jacksonville, FL
Miami, FL


The S-Line through Raliegh goes this route
Richmond, VA
(tracks are missing for about 1/2 this distance)
Raliegh, NC
Columbia, SC
Savannah, GA

Washington DC,Richmond,Rocky Mount,Florence,Savannah,Jacksonville,A-Line.
Richmond,Raleigh,Hamlet,Columbia,Savannah,Jacksonville,S-Line.

rbx551985 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PittsburghMike Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> the S-Line rebuild
> is already set to commence within the next 3-5
> years at most.

There's a fascinating document (albiet a long read) on the subject of the S-line rebuild here:

http://www.sehsr.org/reports/rich_vol_1.pdf

Lets face it, something will have to be done : Interstates packed, fuel costs and pollution controls, the best solution is rail!

And Id rather see the feds spend MY tax dollars on rail upgrades than more airplanes and truck lanes.....

Im curious to see what devlopes with the Virginia plans to reduce the traffic on I81.

My 2 cents....

Randy

Rhett,
While in Baltimore on Q406 last week Pen Mary Yard Master assured me that the RF&P will be getting a third main from AF Interlocking (Alexandria) to Lorton, VA where the auto train boards. He said the funding is in place, he did not say who, like state-federal-or CSX but the plans are firmly in place for the project to start in 07. The right of way is already there for this project. Further expansion south from this point would require more big bridge projects of the likes seen recently at Quantico, VA.
As far as the A-Line is concerned just think of the infrastructure that would have to be created, AKA Acca Yard can not handle nor was is ever designed to handle the traffic levels that such expansion implies. It can't handle what it has now! Two Collier Yard in my opinion would have to officially be called an (open) yard again. Since it is on the shut down yard list (funny sure doesn't seem closed to me!) the company would have to make this the primary classification point in the erea and possibly the crew change and if they wanted to really do it right-a main line refuel point. If the S-line high speed corridor rebuild happens, rebuild the Burgess connection at S. Collier and so on.

How will they fit 2 more tracks through Ashland?

EMD645V-20 Wrote:
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but the plans are firmly in
> place for the project to start in 07.

I guess that CSX rail train working this past Saturday between Lorton and Possum Point was a bit early :)

jhm213 Wrote:
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> How will they fit 2 more tracks through Ashland?

Some plans on the table call for:
-- a new alignment for two more tracks AROUND Ashland (but where, they weren't specific).
-- utilizing the Piedmont route between Doswell and the S-Line at AM Jct. in downtown Richmond [and the S-Line south from there] to re-route some traffic around Acca Yard. Note that "some." Any such re-routed trains would HAVE to clear under the relatively low, overhead C&O bridge at downtown Richmond's Triple Level Crossing. And, a new direct connection would have to be constructed at Doswell, from the RF&P Sub onto the Piedmont Sub, which is now coming under the direct dispatching of Buckingham Branch RR, which has leased the Piedmont Sub from CSXT. (These plans will affect a LOT of companies besides just CSXT, including multiple state/county/city jurisdictions, and the public at large.)

???

EMD645V-20 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rhett,
> While in Baltimore on Q406 last week Pen Mary Yard
> Master assured me that the RF&P will be getting a
> third main from AF Interlocking (Alexandria) to
> Lorton, VA where the auto train boards. He said
> the funding is in place, he did not say who, like
> state-federal-or CSX but the plans are firmly in
> place for the project to start in 07. The right of
> way is already there for this project. Further
> expansion south from this point would require more
> big bridge projects of the likes seen recently at
> Quantico, VA.

I've seen the schematic drawings for this project. It is a multistage effort where sections between rivers will be the first to be tripled, and additional bridges being added across the rivers as traffic warrants. Across the Quantico will be tripled in the first stage using the new bridge.