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Date: 11/12/13 20:05
Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: nssd70

I am looking for info on Norfolk Southern's Chicago operations,what each of there yards do,and which trains go to BRC,IHB,etc. Does NS'crews operate the trains to IHB,UP,etc,or do IHB,BRC crews take them? Thanks for any help.

Doug



Date: 11/13/13 02:48
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: swampfox

been retired from calumet yard for several years so will keep an eye on this thread to see whats going on. was always a general switching yard with transfer jobs to all the other yards, ns and others, with ns and foreign crews. local union agreements always had these transfer jobs changing quite regularly .reguaar assignments to brc and ihb were common tho.



Date: 11/13/13 07:40
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: calumet

Landers, 47th St and Park Manor (63rd St) are intermodal terminals. Calumet Yard is mainly classification but has some intermodal as well. Like Calumet, Ashland Ave yard runs transfers to other yards and RRs. Most if not all auto racks are sent to IHB's Gibson Yard in Hammond, IN.

NS's main classification yard is actually in Elkhart, IN. Trains are made up there for delivery to the Chicago area.



Date: 11/13/13 08:02
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: Lackawanna484

calumet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Landers, 47th St and Park Manor (63rd St) are
> intermodal terminals. Calumet Yard is mainly
> classification but has some intermodal as well.
> Like Calumet, Ashland Ave yard runs transfers to
> other yards and RRs. Most if not all auto racks
> are sent to IHB's Gibson Yard in Hammond, IN.
>
> NS's main classification yard is actually in
> Elkhart, IN. Trains are made up there for
> delivery to the Chicago area.

So, the train delivered to UP, for example, would already be set up with the blocks UP needs? Swap the power and FRED, and they're ready for an air test.

Do the NS yards in Chicago set up incoming blocks/trains for delivery to Conway, Linwood, etc or is that done at Elkhart, too?

Thanks for the info



Date: 11/13/13 08:16
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: toledopatch

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do the NS yards in Chicago set up incoming
> blocks/trains for delivery to Conway, Linwood, etc
> or is that done at Elkhart, too?

My impression is that the NS boxcar yards (as opposed to intermodal) in Chicago mainly support local industry and local interchange. NS does get a few trains from interchange partners in Chicago that have blocks for points east of Elkhart, such as the BRC-Conway train (16E?), and also gets the 10R off the BNSF at Streator that bypasses Chicago entirely and often goes all the way to Conway. But Elkhart does most of the heavy classification work. That's where the Linwood train (18M) originates, for example.

The big classification yards in Chicagoland -- major humps -- I can think of are CP-Bensenville, Proviso, Clearing, IHB-Blue Island, CN-Kirk, and CSX-Barr. BNSF humps in Galesburg, NS in Elkhart.



Date: 11/13/13 09:15
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: esprrfan

calumet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Landers, 47th St and Park Manor (63rd St) are
> intermodal terminals. Calumet Yard is mainly
> classification but has some intermodal as well.
> Like Calumet, Ashland Ave yard runs transfers to
> other yards and RRs. Most if not all auto racks
> are sent to IHB's Gibson Yard in Hammond, IN.
>
> NS's main classification yard is actually in
> Elkhart, IN. Trains are made up there for
> delivery to the Chicago area.

Ashland also generates stack trains such as 20N, 26N, 24W, 24Z and 20W does a power swap there.
Colhour takes in 25N, 21G, 235, 23M and 21V



Date: 11/13/13 09:51
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: florida581

Where to start? NS has 4 Chicago intermodal terminals, a roadrailer terminal, at least 2 general freight yards, and an auto mixing center. As you've mentioned, NS interchanges a lot traffic directly to other railroads. Ashland Ave is the primary interchange location for BNSF and UP, Rock Island Jct (CP 509) and Pullman Jct for BRC, and Indiana Harbor (CP 502) and Osborn for IHB. CN and CP interchange trains mostly go via BRC or IHB trackage. I'll attempt to break down where each of the scheduled trains originate / terminate and are routed. Use this excellent page for location reference http://www.dhke.com/CRJ/

Corrections will be most appreciated.

Intermodal trains:

47th St. Intermodal Terminal:
205 AYER, MA (PAS)- CHICAGO, IL (47TH)
206 CHICAGO, IL (47TH) - AYER, MA (PAS)
20Q CHICAGO, IL (47TH) - MORRISVILLE, PA
21Q HARRISBURG, PA - CHICAGO, IL (47TH)
21Z RUTHERFORD, PA - CHICAGO, IL (47TH)
22K CHICAGO, IL (47TH) - AYER, MA (PAS)
23K AYER, MA (PAS) - CHICAGO, IL (47TH)
25T MORRISVILLE, PA - CHICAGO, IL (47TH) (SA)
25Z ERAIL, NJ - CHICAGO, IL (47TH)
26T CHICAGO, IL (47TH) - HARRISBURG, PA
-All trains go via ex-NYC Chicago Line.

63rd St. Intermodal Terminal:
294 CHICAGO, IL (63RD) - BETHLEHEM, PA (TU)
20E CHICAGO, IL (63RD) - CROXTON, NJ
20K CHICAGO, IL (63RD) - CROXTON, NJ
21J RUTHERFORD, PA - CHICAGO, IL (63RD) (TU-SU)
21J MORRISVILLE, PA - CHICAGO, IL (63RD) (MO)
21M CROXTON, NJ - CHICAGO, IL (63RD)
22W CHICAGO, IL (63RD) - RUTHERFORD, PA
23Z CROXTON, NJ - CHICAGO, IL (63RD)
24M CHICAGO, IL (63RD) - BALTIMORE, MD
-All trains go via ex-NYC Chicago Line.

Landers Intermodal Terminal:
215 CHICAGO, IL (LANDERS) - ATLANTA, GA
216 ATLANTA, GA - CHICAGO, IL (LANDERS)
233 NORFOLK, VA - CHICAGO, IL (LANDERS)
234 CHICAGO, IL (LANDERS) - NORFOLK, VA
282 JACKSONVILLE, FL - CHICAGO, IL (LANDERS)
295 CHICAGO, IL (LANDERS) - JACKSONVILLE, FL (FEC)
25A CHICAGO, IL (LANDERS) - DANVILLE, KY
-All trains go via ex-NKP Chicago District.

Calumet Intermodal Terminal:
217 (P88 FROM CHARLOTTE, NC) LINWOOD, NC - CHICAGO, IL (CALUMET)
218 CHICAGO, IL (CALUMET) - LINWOOD, NC (P99 TO CHARLOTTE, NC)
20R CHICAGO, IL (CALUMET) - ERAIL, NJ
21R MORRISVILLE, PA - CHICAGO, IL (CALUMET) (SU)
25V ELIZABETH, NJ - CHICAGO, IL (CALUMET)
-All trains go via ex-NKP Chicago District.

BNSF/UP interchange at Ashland Ave Yard:
20N CHICAGO, IL (ASHLAND) - DETROIT, MI (LIVERNOIS)
20W CHICAGO, IL (ASHLAND / BNSF ZLACNYC) - CROXTON, NJ
21E MORRISVILLE, PA - WILLOW SPRINGS, IL (BNSF)
21G HARRISBURG, PA - CORWITH, IL (BNSF QNYCLAC)
21N DETROIT, MI (LIVERNOIS) - CICERO, IL (BNSF)
21V HARRISBURG, PA - CICERO, IL (BNSF)
23M ELIZABETH, NJ - GLOBAL 2, IL (UP) (TU-SA)
23M HARRISBURG, PA - GLOBAL 2 , IL (UP) (SU)
24W CHICAGO, IL (ASHLAND) - HARRISBURG, PA
24Z CHICAGO, IL (ASHLAND) - CROXTON, NJ
25N COLUMBUS, OH - CORWITH, IL (BNSF)
26N CHICAGO, IL (ASHLAND) - COLUMBUS, OH
-All trains go via ex-NYC Chicago Line.

Colehour Yard:
235 COLUMBUS, OH - CHICAGO, IL (COLEHOUR)
-Train is broken up at Colehour Yard. Various NS intermodals pick up the blocks on their way west. Train goes via ex-NYC Chicago Line.

Roadrailer trains:

261 BETHLEHEM, PA - CHICAGO, IL
262 CHICAGO, IL - BETHLEHEM, PA
-East of Chicago, the roadrailers go via ex-NKP Chicago District. The Roadrailer terminal is located at Calumet Yard. 261 and 262 work at Calumet. West of Calumet, trains go via Pullman Jct, past Landers Yard, and get on the IHB/B&OCT at Chicago Ridge and go north to the UP. These trains will ultimately go to/from Minneapolis as UP ZCHEM/ZEMCH.

Autorack trains:

13J FT. WAYNE, IN - GIBSON, IN (IHB) -Via ex-NKP Chicago District. Gets on Kankakee Line at Osborn, IN and then to IHB's Gibson Yard just north of Osborn.
278 KANSAS CITY, MO - CHICAGO, IL -Via CN ex-IC Chicago Sub from Gilman, IL. Exits the CN at 95th St. Terminates/works Ford assembly plant and NS mixing center???
280 CHICAGO, IL - BELLEVUE, OH -Via ex-NKP Chicago District. Originates at Ford assembly plant or NS mixing center???
31M DETROIT, MI - GIBSON, IN (IHB) -Via ex-NYC Chicago Line. Gets on the IHB at Indiana Harbor (CP 502).

Manifest trains:

The biggest NS freight yard in Chicago is Calumet Yard (ex-NKP). Ashland Ave. Yard is mostly used for interchange with BNSF/UP, but I believe a few locals and switch jobs are based there.

Calumet Yard:
177 CHICAGO, IL - CHATTANOOGA, TN -Via ex-NKP Chicago District.
12N CHICAGO, IL - CONWAY, PA -Via Osborn (IHB), Indiana Harbor (CP 502) and ex-NYC Chicago Line???
317 CHICAGO, IL - DECATUR, IL -Works mixing center? Enters CN ex-IC Chicago Sub at 95th St. and exits at Gilman, IL.

Ashland Ave Yard -BNSF/UP interchange:
12A CHICAGO, IL (UP) - ELKHART, IN -Originates at UP Proviso Yard
14A CHICAGO, IL (UP QNPEL) - BELLEVUE, OH -UP run through.
33E ELKHART, IN - CHICAGO, IL (UP MELNP) -UP run through.
33G ELKHART, IN - CHICAGO, IL (BNSF H-NSINTW) -BNSF run through.
35E ELKHART, IN - CHICAGO, IL (UP) -Terminates at UP Proviso Yard.
-All trains via ex-NYC Chicago Line.

CN trains:
17R CHICAGO, IL (CN) - BELLEVUE, OH
17W ELKHART, IN - CHICAGO, IL (CN)
323 FT. WAYNE, IN - VAN LOON, IN (CN) TURN -Via ex-NKP Chicago District. Steel products train. Train is broken up at Van Loon where various CN trains/locals pick up the blocks.
30Q CHICAGO, IL (CN) - BELLEVUE, OH
31Q ELKHART, IN - CHICAGO, IL (CN)
32N GARY, IN (CN) - ELKHART, IN -Originates at CN Kirk Yard. Enters NS at South Bend, IN.
33N ELKHART, IN - GARY, IN (CN) -Terminates at CN Kirk Yard. Enters CN at South Bend, IN.
-All trains via ex-NYC Chicago Line except where noted. One pair of manifests are run throughs to/from Winnipeg and the other pair terminates at CN's ex-GM&O Glenn Yard, I think. Not sure which pair does what.

CP trains:
114 KNOXVILLE, TN - CHICAGO, IL (CP) -Via ex-NKP Chicago District.
17V ELKHART, IN - CHICAGO, IL (CP) -Via ex-NYC Chicago Line.
19N CONWAY, PA - CHICAGO, IL (CP) -Via ex-NYC Chicago Line.
-All trains originate/terminate at CP's Bensenville Yard.

BRC Clearing Yard:
173 CHICAGO, IL (BRC) - MACON, GA -Enters NS at Pullman Jct. Via ex-NKP Chicago District.
15Q BELLEVUE, OH - CHICAGO, IL (BRC)
16E CHICAGO, IL (BRC) - CONWAY, PA
18A CHICAGO, IL (BRC) - CONWAY, PA
19A CONWAY, PA - CHICAGO, IL (BRC)
306 CHICAGO, IL (BRC) - BELLEVUE, OH -Enters NS at Pullman Jct. Via ex-NKP Chicago District.
34G CHICAGO, IL (BRC) - ELKHART, IN
37M ELKHART, IN - CHICAGO, IL (BRC)
-All trains enter/exit the BRC at Rock Island Jct (CP 509) and go via the ex-NYC Chicago Line except where noted.

IHB Blue Island Yard:
34J CHICAGO, IL (IHB) - ELKHART, IN
35J ELKHART, IN - CHICAGO, IL (IHB)
-All trains enter/exit the IHB at Indiana Harbor (CP 502) and go via the ex-NYC Chicago Line.

Kankakee Line trains:
10R STREATOR, IL (BNSF H-GALCWY) - CONWAY, PA -BNSF run through. Bypasses Chicago on Kankakee Line to ex-NYC Chicago Line at Indiana Harbor (CP 502).
17N CONWAY, PA - KANKAKEE, IL -Bypasses Chicago from the ex-NYC Chicago Line at Indiana Harbor (CP 502) to the Kankakee Line.
31K ELKHART, IN - STREATOR, IL (BNSF M-NSIKCK) -BNSF run through. Bypasses Chicago from the ex-NYC Chicago Line at Indiana Harbor (CP 502) on the Kankakee Line.
36J KANKAKEE, IL - ELKHART, IN -Bypasses Chicago on Kankakee Line to the ex-NYC Chicago Line at Indiana Harbor (CP 502).

Andrew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/13 16:03 by florida581.



Date: 11/13/13 09:57
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: florida581

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The big classification yards in Chicagoland --
> major humps -- I can think of are CP-Bensenville,
> Proviso, Clearing, IHB-Blue Island, CN-Kirk, and
> CSX-Barr. BNSF humps in Galesburg, NS in Elkhart.

CSX Barr Yard never had a hump and CP (EHH) recently demoted Bensenville to just flat switching.

Andrew



Date: 11/13/13 10:17
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: Lackawanna484

florida581 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where to start? NS has 4 Chicago intermodal
> terminals, a roadrailer terminal, at least 2
> general freight yards, and an auto mixing center.
> As you've mentioned, NS interchanges a lot traffic
> directly to other railroads. Ashland Ave is the
> primary interchange location for BNSF and UP, Rock
> Island Jct (CP 509) and Pullman Jct for BRC, and
> Indiana Harbor (CP 502) and Osborn for IHB. CN
> and CP interchange trains mostly go via BRC or IHB
> trackage. I'll attempt to break down where each
> of the scheduled trains originate / terminate and
> are routed. Use this excellent page for location
> reference http://www.dhke.com/CRJ/

(snip)


That's an awesome list. Thanks for sharing it. Very helpful



Date: 11/13/13 10:49
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: toledopatch

florida581 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> toledopatch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > The big classification yards in Chicagoland --
> > major humps -- I can think of are
> CP-Bensenville,
> > Proviso, Clearing, IHB-Blue Island, CN-Kirk,
> and
> > CSX-Barr. BNSF humps in Galesburg, NS in
> Elkhart.
>
> CSX Barr Yard never had a hump and CP (EHH)
> recently demoted Bensenville to just flat
> switching.
>

OK, thanks. I wasn't sure about Barr -- probably should have included that ambivalence, but this is a discussion -- and the downgrading of Bensenville reinforces the overall point that a lot of boxcar classification is done elsewhere now.

It's odd to think of how much the big railroads now depend on the Belt Railway to handle Chicago hump work, because the first time I visited Clearing in 1990, the place was a ghost town.



Date: 11/13/13 12:54
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: esprrfan

florida581 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Corrections will be most appreciated.

here's a few corrections
> 21Z RUTHERFORD, PA - CHICAGO, IL (47TH)Actually goes to Park Manor (63)

> > BNSF/UP interchange at Ashland Ave Yard:


> 21G HARRISBURG, PA - CORWITH, IL (BNSF QNYCLAC)
> 21N DETROIT, MI (LIVERNOIS) - CICERO, IL (BNSF)
> 21V HARRISBURG, PA - CICERO, IL (BNSF)
> 23M ELIZABETH, NJ - GLOBAL 2, IL (UP) (TU-SA)
> 23M HARRISBURG, PA - GLOBAL 2 , IL (UP) (SU)
> 25N COLUMBUS, OH - CORWITH, IL (BNSF)
These trains go in to Colehour and are block swapped here the road crews get off and at some point later the terminal guys take reblocked trains on often under their local crew symbol. A few times I've had a 23M with nothing but UP blocks and have taken it right to Ashland and handed it off to a UP crew. Numerous other times I've broke down the 25N, 21V and the 21G even a time or two and put power to the panhandles.

> Colehour Yard:
> 235 COLUMBUS, OH - CHICAGO, IL (COLEHOUR)
> -Train is broken up at Colehour Yard. Various NS
> intermodals pick up the blocks on their way west.
> Train goes via ex-NYC Chicago Line.

>
> Autorack trains:
>

> 33M Toledo, Oh - GIBSON, IN (IHB) -Via ex-NYC
> Chicago Line. Gets on the IHB at Indiana Harbor
> (CP 502).

> Ashland Ave Yard -BNSF/UP interchange:
18A UP- Conway Pa via ex-NYC Chicago Line.
>



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/13 13:09 by esprrfan.



Date: 11/13/13 13:30
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: florida581

Many thanks, esprrfan. I'll adjust my notes accordingly.

Andrew

Posted from iPhone



Date: 11/13/13 15:12
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: nssd70

A big thank you to everyone for the info.

Doug



Date: 11/13/13 17:04
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: zchcsse

It's indicated in this thread that there isn't, but does Ashland Ave. also have an intermodal facility, in addition to being the gateway interchange yard for intermodal?

I could be wrong, but it seems like some of the intermodals I've seen to/from there have "mixed" intermodal loads based on what runs on UP and BNSF respectively. Not "blocks of Hub and JB Hunt, for example, but Hub and J.B. Hunt in the same double stack well, for example.

-Tom



Date: 11/13/13 17:29
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: florida581

zchcsse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's indicated in this thread that there isn't,
> but does Ashland Ave. also have an intermodal
> facility, in addition to being the gateway
> interchange yard for intermodal?
>
> I could be wrong, but it seems like some of the
> intermodals I've seen to/from there have "mixed"
> intermodal loads based on what runs on UP and BNSF
> respectively. Not "blocks of Hub and JB Hunt, for
> example, but Hub and J.B. Hunt in the same double
> stack well, for example.
>
> -Tom

Ashland Ave doesn't have an intermodal facility.

Andrew

Posted from iPhone



Date: 11/13/13 17:33
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: PCTZ

Great list...well done! AFAIK, 12N goes via NKP- Bellevue-Vermilion-Conway. Mostly Canadian crude and lumber



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/13 18:26 by PCTZ.



Date: 11/13/13 21:36
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: zchcsse

Interesting. So there is far more intermodal traffic steel-wheeled through Chicago (at least to NS) than I would have thought.

I know BNSF has the QFTMNSA, ZLACNYC, and a small part of the ZSBDNSA6 (which only runs about 3times/week) are the primary eastbounds off the Santa Fe that go to NS.



florida581 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> zchcsse Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's indicated in this thread that there isn't,
> > but does Ashland Ave. also have an intermodal
> > facility, in addition to being the gateway
> > interchange yard for intermodal?
> >
> > I could be wrong, but it seems like some of the
> > intermodals I've seen to/from there have
> "mixed"
> > intermodal loads based on what runs on UP and
> BNSF
> > respectively. Not "blocks of Hub and JB Hunt,
> for
> > example, but Hub and J.B. Hunt in the same
> double
> > stack well, for example.
> >
> > -Tom
>
> Ashland Ave doesn't have an intermodal facility.
>
> Andrew
>
> Posted from iPhone



Date: 11/14/13 12:39
Re: Norfolk Southern Chicago Operations Question
Author: esprrfan

florida581 Wrote:

> Ashland Ave doesn't have an intermodal facility.
>
> Andrew
>
> Posted from iPhone

At Ashland outbounds are built up from blocks coming in off UP, BNSF. Like the Bn train that becomes the 20W sats off a block for 24Z as part of the power swap, the Z is also often built up late due to waiting cars from the UP. Also a Cleveland block is brought over from 55th st to be included in the 24W built up at Ashland except on Sunday the clevelands go on 24Z, No 24W sundays.

D



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