Eastern Railroad Discussion > 2 arrested to photgraphing refinery

Not railfans, but amateur photographers arrested in Philadelphia for taking pictures of a refinery at sunset:

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/3592001.htm

Maybe we should keep an eye on this case.

Ron

Read this article with interest and concern. It appears that the police may have gotten a bit carried away with the whole thing. I'm smelling a lawsuite here. This is the most troubling part of the story to me. "A woman cop said, 'Don't you know what's going on in this country?'" Madeira recalled." Well, I do know what's going on here in our country, and actions and statements such as that are adding to the paranoia enveloping us. The cops did right in checking to see what was up, and paranoia led them to get carried away, and do what's wrong.

Here's a direct link to the story.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/3592001.htm

John R
http://www.trainweb.org/phllocal

Well gee, the one guy was from that terrorist hotbed of Finland. Well known for...uh...something I guess...Nokia Phones! that's it!

All kidding aside, this is scary.

Anyone know exactly what the laws are regarding Photography? I always thought that as long as you were on "public property" you could photograph pretty much what ever you wanted. I do know that the NJ turnpike has/had some sort of strange no photography rule...

Well, if the police dont get them on the photo thing, they might try for tresspassing on a bridge. Any restrictions there? Most large bridges prohibit pedesterian traffic.

Jim

I caught the tail end of that story on 1210 am yesterday.

sounds like it was slow day in the precinct. Boredome, a general lack of judgement and overzealousness are a bad brew for a police force.

Only winner here will be their lawyers.

schramman wrote:

> Well gee, the one guy was from that terrorist hotbed of
> Finland. Well known for...uh...something I guess...Nokia
> Phones! that's it!
>
> All kidding aside, this is scary.
>
> Anyone know exactly what the laws are regarding Photography?
> I always thought that as long as you were on "public property"
> you could photograph pretty much what ever you wanted. I do
> know that the NJ turnpike has/had some sort of strange no
> photography rule...
>
> [%sig%]

I believe it is illegal to stop and pull over to the shoulder of any highway unless you actually have mechanical problems with your automobile.

I had a similar incident take place in March. I was shooting CSX action at the east end of Augusta (GA) yard on a public bridge right next to a large fertilizer plant (DSM). I was quickly accosted by the plant "rent a cops" and eventually the plant security chief came up to talk to me. I was asked to show ID etc. I made it perfectly clear I was shooting trains not the plant. They eventually apologized for the whole deal but told me all plants of their nature are to remain on high alert since 9-11. I was also warned that the sheriffs department was more likely to put people under immediate arrest and ask questions later if they saw people near the plant with cameras...
Larry

Certainly, 9/11 has put everybody "on edge" regarding security. To those in charge, anyone taking pictures must be somehow connected to a terrorist organization...or else, why take the pictures???

The objective of 9/11 wasn't just to destroy the WTC, the Pentagon and the White House...but to terrorize this nation. I don't have any figures, but how many BILLIONS have been/are being spent on "security" since 9/11??

I don't know about you, but having a bunch of National Guard troops, bomb-sniffing dogs, double and even triple checks of luggage when flying is a complete waste of money...our money. Today, everyone is afraid of some terrorist activity at 4th of July events...be it NYC, WAS, or anywhere else. How much is THAT costing us, the taxpayers???

Are we, as a nation, now living in fear for our lives? Will the plane we board tommorrow, or the tunnel we ride through next week be the next terrorist target? Sadly, I think Al Quida and the gang have succeeded in their objective of terrorizing us..

bratkinson wrote:

Sadly, I think Al
> Quida and the gang have succeeded in their objective of
> terrorizing us..
>
> [%sig%]


Me thinks you're right. As Pogo said "I have seen the enemy....And he is us".
I for one refuse to give up my "RIGHTS" for safety. That's just what THEY want. This country is giving into the Bas***ds. We keep it up and THEY WON!
John C. Durant

By the refinery in Elizabeth / Linden NJ.

I had pulled up, parked off the road, and went looking for the Morristown & Erie switcher contracted there. Within 2 minutes a security truck was there with two armed guys. I'm sure there's a surveillance camera.

We talked, I explained what I wanted to do, they told me the crew wasn't switching. If I wanted to check in at the main gate on another day, that would be OK.

I understand their concern, they understand my desire for a specialized picture. I wouldn't expect to go waltzing into a nuclear power plant, or take detailed pix of a complex refinery. It seems to me that they did their job just fine.

If the security people at American Airlines, United, Argenbright, FAA, FBI, CIA did as good a job as these guys did, maybe we'd have 3,050 more Americans alive today.

Paul

A kid just old enough to drive had two rolls of film confiscated in South Jersey about 6 months ago. He was photographing Conrail Shared Assets and was told that since a nuclear power plant was just 10 miles away he was considered a potential terrorist. The police told him he'd get the pictures back if they were benign. I haven't heard a follow-up.

there is a huge difference between being checked out and being hauled off to the station house. One is called smart plice work the other is called false arrest. Police that can't tell the difference aren't worth their keep.

Don't suppose they arrested the reporter who took the picture in the article as well...?

Just a thought.

Where we celebrate the history of our freedoms, rights and liberties

Because, guess what folks, it sure looks like they ARE history

The easiest way to defeat an enemy is to get them to turn on themselves

oaksmodelrr wrote:> Where we celebrate the history of our freedoms, rights and> liberties> > Because, guess what folks, it sure looks like they ARE> history> > ..........No, they are not history. But 9-11 woke us up. Would you like to board a bus in Isarel right now? Every time Isarel tried to squash Arafat, the world was there to condemn it (All but the U.S.). Now we have basically told Isarel, Do what you have to do to protect yourselves.................... Our lax attitude towards terrorism in the past has led us to this extreme. Thats one thing we are especially good at. Jumping to the extreme, and then scaling back from there.

pizzaman wrote:

"No, they are not history. But 9-11 woke us up. Would you like to board a bus in Isarel right now?"

Insted of comparing the US of presentto the Isreal of present, how about comparing the US of present to the US of recent past?

Every few days George W. and Johnnie Ashcrotch decide totake away a few more of our rights or to impose on us, our way of life fades a little more. A few more years of this and we may decide that Isreal IS better off than we are.


Joe H.

Pizzaman wrote: Thats one thing we are especially good at. Jumping to the extreme, and then scaling back from there.


A very great man, Winston Churchill, said that America can always be counted on to do the right thing, BUT ONLY after exhausting all other possibilities.

Let's just hope we don't wake up in a police state one day and then try to "scale it back" from there. In such situations those who speak out against the system are usually referred to in the past tense.

Photography is just one of the many things being watched.

Read about the "Patriot Act". Can't quite figure out what's so patriotic about it. Giving up the protection of "probable cause" when it comes to search criteria is very troubling.

http://www.ala.org/alaorg/oif/usapatriotlibrary.html

Section 216 infers that being questioned about your photographic habits can now lead to many new invasions of your privacy.

not very cheerful stuff.

Daniel