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Eastern Railroad Discussion > Southern streamliner question


Date: 09/08/02 21:28
Southern streamliner question
Author: Gene_CA

Does anyone have info on one of the first Southern streamliners that ran from Memphis (I think) to Washington, DC in the early '40's? It went through Knoxville and Johnson City, TN. Would like to know the name of the train (Could have been the "Humming Bird")and possible source of timetables. Thanks.



Date: 09/08/02 22:19
Re: Southern streamliner question
Author: Ts1457

Gene_CA wrote:

> Does anyone have info on one of the first Southern
> streamliners that ran from Memphis (I think) to Washington, DC
> in the early '40's? It went through Knoxville and Johnson
> City, TN. Would like to know the name of the train (Could have
> been the "Humming Bird")and possible source of timetables.
> Thanks.

"The Tennessean" began operating spring '41.

eBay is the best place to look for timetables.



Date: 09/09/02 08:18
Re: Southern streamliner question
Author: galen74

Here we see N&W Class-J #607 stopping at Kemper Street Station in Lynchburg with the southbound Tennessean (train #45). During the 1950’s, N&W Class-J locomotives made regular appearances through Southern Railway's Kemper Street Station on the point of the Tennesean. This train operated from New York to Memphis. South of Washington, DC, the train moved over the Southern Railway to Lynchburg. From here, it ran the N&W to Bristol, TN. There, it once again picked up the Southern Railway. Back in those days, pooling foreign motive power was seldom seen in this area, but it wasn't rare on this train. The Southern would power the train by diesel to Monroe, VA (about 10 miles north of Lynchburg). Then, N&W Js would take the train to Bristol, where more Southern diesels were waiting to continue the journey. (Photo from the Collection of Carl Rose)

Galen Wright
Lynchburg, VA
K4CnO





Date: 09/09/02 10:14
Re: Southern streamliner question
Author: blair

galen74 wrote:
[snip]

Nope. He's referring to the streamlined Pacifics the Southern had. My uncle took pix of them around Alexandria.



Date: 09/09/02 11:20
Re: Southern streamliner question
Author: Aces

Yep! Galen is correct in stating that Southern diesels took this train to Lynchburg in the 40s.
I rode this train from Alexandria to Memphis in Dec.,1943. The Southern engineer was a family friend, Mr. Hilton Sudderth, and we exchanged greetings from his seat in the cab of his diesel locomotive. I was enroute to Fayetteville, AK and the University there to continue Air Corps Cadet training.
Aces



Date: 09/09/02 14:40
Type of diesel
Author: Ts1457

Aces wrote:

> ... I rode this train from Alexandria to Memphis in Dec.,1943.
> The Southern engineer was a family friend, Mr. Hilton Sudderth,
> and we exchanged greetings from his seat in the cab of his
> diesel locomotive...

Aces, very interesting. Do you remember anything about the type of diesels? Southern got a third set of Alco DL109-DL110 in Sept. 1942 to dieselize the Washington-Monroe leg of The Tennessean. Of course wartime could have messed up the assignments.

The Southern had one streamlined Ps-4 Pacific, No. 1380 to handle the Washington-Monroe leg. It's reign on The Tennessean was little over a year before it was bumped into the general pool. The streamlining was designed by Otto Kuhler, who claimed it was his favorite streamlining job, but that he never got paid for it. I think his story changed some over the years, but the most plausible explanation was that he was working for Alco, who were trying to sell Southern DL10x's for the Memphis-Bristol leg. To help out his client, he did the design for the steam engine that would handle Southern's portion of the run that was not to be dieselized. After Alco failed to get the order, Kuhler did not feel like billing Alco for the design work. He was pleased that Southern shop forces pretty faithfully followed his design, only adding a couple of dou-dads on the front of the engine.



Date: 09/09/02 15:15
Re: Type of diesel
Author: blair

Ts1457 wrote:

> The Southern had one streamlined Ps-4 Pacific, No. 1380 to
> handle the Washington-Monroe leg. It's reign on The Tennessean
> was little over a year before it was bumped into the general
> pool.

Google for "tennessean streamlined pacific". You'll get hits. Such as:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000QwF

>>
Streamlined Locomotive
greenspun.com : LUSENET : Southern Railway : One Thread User FAQ

----------

I just saw a picture in an out-of-print book of a streamlined locomotive that was described as the only streamlined locomotive the Southern ever had. Does anyone know anything about it? (When bought, from where, where&when did it operate, what happened to it, paint scheme?)
Leroy

-- Leroy Delionbach (leroyd@scescape.net), January 27, 1999

Answers
Leroy--your are talking about #1380 a PS4 Pacific streamlined in 1939 for use on the Washington D.C. to Lynchburg leg of the Tennessean. After the Tennessean was completely dieselized 1380 saw general use and was scrapped in the early 1950s in Baltimore, Md. Prescision Scale imported a brass version 2-3 years ago in HO scale and you occasionally see one offered on the Caboose Hobbies web page but they doubled in value immmediately after their release. I will be adding some photos to the web site soon--Larry

-- Larry Puckett (lpuckett@geocities.com), January 27, 1999.

-------------

Larry... Thanks for the information. I found a good picture in my copy of Prince's "Southern Railway System" when I knew what I was looking for.Would like to see a color photo if anyone has one to share here, or if anyone knows where one is published. Leroy

-- Leroy Delionbach (leroyd@scescape.net), January 27, 1999.

--------------

Leroy--there is a pretty good color shot in the Southern In Color book vol 1 and I undersdtand in vol 2 as well. Also, there was a Vanishing Rails postcard of one out a few years ago. I just saw one of the brass models for sale on the Model Railroader web page classified section too.

-- Larry Puckett (lpuckett@geocities.com), January 29, 1999.

---------------

Leroy-- The information posted in response to your question about the 1380 is correct--but let me add one thing: The 1380 was the only Ps4 to be streamlined, but the 1380 was not Southern's only streamlined steam engine. Light Pacific 1219, belonging to the Atlanta division, also got some streamlining in the late 20's. The streamlining was not as extensive as what the 1380 received, but enough to make her stand out from other Ps/Ps2 Pacifics. I have photos of the 1219 that Shelby Lowe gave me, made in 1929 just before and just after overhaul at the old South Shops in ATlanta. The styling applied to the 1219 made her look like a Canadian Pacific engine. The 1219, you may recall, was the engine pulling First #2 "Ponce de Leon" when it collided head-on with Ts Mountain 1456 pulling #101 "Royal Palm" at my hometown of Rockmart GA on 12-23-26. The 1219 does not appear to have been streamlined at the time of the Rockmart wreck, judging from photos of the wreckage. The streamlining may have been applied when the engine was rebuilt after the Rockmart wreck. The streamlining was subsequently removed. The 1219 spent her last years on the south end of the Atlanta division running between Macon and Brunswick. I have a photo of the 1219 made about 1950, showing her looking like a very conventional Atlanta division Ps/Ps2.

-- (LW.Sou.Ry.steam@juno.com), February 08, 1999.
<<

I have Prince's book. Look; a picture, but it's nowhere near Alexandria.

http://southern.railfan.net/ties/1965/65-7/family1.html





Date: 09/11/02 07:27
Question
Author: RDG484

I read that Southern's diesels would give the Tenneseean over to the N&W LATE, but N&W, with steam power, would give it back to the Southern ON TIME at Bristol. Any truth to that?



Date: 09/11/02 08:00
Re: Question
Author: Ts1457

RDG484 wrote:

> I read that Southern's diesels would give the Tenneseean over
> to the N&W LATE, but N&W, with steam power, would give it back
> to the Southern ON TIME at Bristol. Any truth to that?

Who knows? Probably - but difficult to quantify years later. However this reminds me of a story that a co-worker at N&W used to tell. He was riding from DC to Roanoke on a joint SOU-N&W train back in the forties. The Southern Ps-4 had all it could handle on Southern's roller coaster profile in Virginia. He said the train was slam-bamming all around. After Monroe, when the N&W J took over, the ride got considerably smoother. One of the passenger remarked to a porter about how the ride got better, to which the porter responded, "We'z got a real locomotive now."



Date: 09/11/02 11:21
Re: Type of diesel
Author: Aces

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I can't say with certainty the make of the diesels on the head end of the Tennessian when I rode it. I wasn't the "train nut" then that I am now. They well could have been Alcos but I just don't know for sure.
Ace S



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