Eastern Railroad Discussion > NS Train Symbols

Does anyone on the list understand Norfolk Southern's train symbols? There are train symbols that are two numbers and end with a letter, for example a K or an R? Then there are others that are three numbers without any letters. What designates one from the other?

Any three-digit symbol with a letter in the -first- position represents a local or a second/extra section. Examples: B41 = Dearborn Division local train 41. M79 = Extra section of 179.
Any three-digit symbol with a letter in the -third- position is a regular train, with the letter acting as if it were a numeral. Examples: 21Z = high priority intermodal train. H2K = Harrisburg Division local train 2K.
Any three-digit symbol with three numerals is a regular train.
All of the symbols with a letter in the third position were introduced after NS acquired its share of Conrail, at which time it was determined there weren't enough road-symbol slots to use numerals exclusively.

This is not a comprehensive list, but the first position letters I believe to include:
A = Alabama Division?
B = Dearborn Division
C = Pittsburgh Division
D = Illinois Division
E = ...
F = ...
G = Georgia Division?
H = Harrisburg Division
I = Extra section of 200-series train
J = Mine runs/helpers in Virginia/West Virginia
K = Also seems to be in Harrisburg Division; used to be for foreign-road trains
L = Lake Division
M = Extra section of 100-series train
N = Harrisburg/Pittsburgh division mine runs/helpers
O = Extra section of 900-series train
P = Piedmont Division
Q = Extra section of 700-series train
R = Extra section of 000-series train
S = Extra section of 800-series train
T = Tennessee Division
U = ...
V = Virginia Division
W = Extra section of 300-series train
X = Extra section of 400-series train
Y = Extra section of 500-series train
Z = Extra section of 600-series train



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/17 18:26 by toledopatch.

You would think, 18 years after taking over Conrail, in that time NS could come up with a more definitive train symbol system using more than just three spaces. so many symbols sound alike with a radio transmission, especially when a letter is in the third position. CSX's symbol logic is a little better, but not much. They were going to adopt Conrail's mostly alpha system based on letters that best represented origins and destinations but did not. BNSF adopted a symbol system that is very descriptive but so long it is not used in radio talk, UP's is simpler, and IMHO, probably the best today.

I dealt with train schedules and symbols for many years, and it really helps RR employees and shippers when they are somewhat descriptive of the service that particular train provides. I'm curious what the new CSX regime with do about symbols even with CSX's relatively simple scheme.

toledopatch Wrote:
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> Any three-digit symbol with a letter in the
> -first- position represents a local or a
> second/extra section. Examples: B41 = Dearborn
> Division local train 41. M79 = Extra section of
> 179.
> Any three-digit symbol with a letter in the
> -third- position is a regular train, with the
> letter acting as if it were a numeral. Examples:
> 21Z = high priority intermodal train. H2K =
> Harrisburg Division local train 2K.
> Any three-digit symbol with three numerals is a
> regular train.
> All of the symbols with a letter in the third
> position were introduced after NS acquired its
> share of Conrail, at which time it was determined
> there weren't enough road-symbol slots to use
> numerals exclusively.
>
> This is not a comprehensive list, but the first
> position letters I believe to include:
> A = Alabama Division?
> B = Dearborn Division
> C = Pittsburgh Division
> D = Illinois Division
> E = ...
> F = ...
> G = Georgia Division?
> H = Harrisburg Division
> I = Extra section of 200-series train
> J = Mine runs/helpers in Virginia/West Virginia
> K = Also seems to be in Harrisburg Division; used
> to be for foreign-road trains
> L = Lake Division
> M = Extra section of 100-series train
> N = Harrisburg/Pittsburgh division mine
> runs/helpers
> O = Extra section of 900-series train
> P = Piedmont Division
> Q = Extra section of 700-series train
> R = Extra section of 000-series train
> S = Extra section of 800-series train
> T = Tennessee Division
> U = ...
> V = Virginia Division
> W = Extra section of 300-series train
> X = Extra section of 400-series train
> Y = Extra section of 500-series train
> Z = Extra section of 600-series train

to add to that is PC
That stands for Piedmont Charlotte Division , there are 4 trains like that

I like the NS system

Conrail was better with for example Allentown - Camden, NJ trains were ALCA and CAAL - you knew the direction right away. NS uses 38G and 39G. Odd numbers are usually west and even eastbound - but that train goes both east and west - so the symbol is no help in determining direction.

UP844 Wrote:
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> to add to that is PC
> That stands for Piedmont Charlotte Division ,
> there are 4 trains like that

Unless NS is doing something different in Charlotte than it's doing in my area, a "PC##" symbol should be a Piedmont Division yard job based in Charlotte. I didn't mention those, but yard/transfer jobs are the only regular NS trains I know of that start with two letters followed by two digits.

In Toledo, examples include BT11 (Dearborn Division, Toledo/Airline Yard, job 11), BO06 (Dearborn Division, Oregon/Homestead Yard, job 06), and BU25 (Dearborn Division, Maumee, job 25).

UP844 Wrote:

> to add to that is PC
> That stands for Piedmont Charlotte Division ,
> there are 4 trains like that

4-digit symbols used on locals are indicative of the division and yard the local is based out of, for example NS PC06, the "Quartermaster Job" is NS (P)iedmont Division, (C)harlotte Yard 06.
Sticking with the Piedmont as an example, there are also Linwood locals (PL05) and Pomona locals (PP21).

The "4-digit" locals are a little different than "Road Locals" in that they typically don't venture to far from the yard, and are typically used to work industries within a short-range distance of the yard; However, some of these "4-digit" locals can travel a decent distance, for instance the PC06 Quartermaster job travels approximately 20 miles from Charlotte Yard up the old AT&O to Cornelius, NC in the morning/early afternoon, and returns to Charlotte later in the day/late evening (although I've seen them return to Charlotte as late as 0100).

Their Amtrak symbols are screwy, too.

sums007 Wrote:
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> Their Amtrak symbols are screwy, too.

The Amtrak trains fall into the 000 series. The Crescent trains carry their own numbers, 019 and 020, but the Capitol Limited (02T/03T), Lake Shore Limited (08T/09T), and Pennsylvanian (04T/07T) do not. I have never heard the "NS" symbols for the Michigan and Virginia trains that run partially over NS rails. Demonstrating how the 'extra' symbols work, whenever Amtrak has run an equipment extra or special train in Toledo, I have heard them symbolled as if they were a second section of the Lake Shore -- R8T eastbound, R9T westbound.

Attached is the NS train number plan. The only change I know of is the elimination of the central division.

Some missing/corrected alpha numbers are
E Piedmont Division (secondary)
F Conrail Shared Assets train numbers
J Pocahontas Division (secondary)
K Central Division Now eliminated it may be what is listed above
U Pocahontas Division Primary

Note that the 100 series (and alpha equivalent) are generally cross region trains
300 are within region manifest trains
400 are within Division trains or spill over from 300 series
56 series are also unit grain trains

The entire list is on the JPED attachment. Why we do not allow PDF attachments I do not know.

---

In looking at this list, NS 932 is listed as a Work train/Camp Train Assignment. This past Tuesday, April 25 2017. I shot an NS 932 on the Buffalo Line of the Harrisburg Div just north of Rockville Pa. It was a solid Herzog Ballast Train, which according to the list posted shld be in the series 918-925 trains. Guess it just depends on the day. Ben

While that list is good, it is at least 3 years out of date. Several reshufflings have taken place, most notably the unit trains in the 6xx series. Also, K is now used as a secondary Harrisburg Division symbol, and N is also used as a secondary Pittsburgh Division symbol.

rhotond Wrote:
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> Note that the 100 series (and alpha equivalent)
> are generally cross region trains
> 300 are within region manifest
> trains
> 400 are within Division trains or
> spill over from 300 series
> 56 series are also unit grain
> trains
>

All the 400s are unit trains now, starting with the #400 coal train that goes from the BNSF in Chicago to a power plant near Chase, Maryland. Many unit coke and unit grain trains are also in the low 400s.

Also, the intermodal information on that page is well out-of-date, at least as it applies to RoadRailers. The only Triple Crown trains still running are #255/#256 between Detroit and Kansas City.

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Amtrak trains fall into the 000 series. The
> Crescent trains carry their own numbers, 019 and
> 020, but the Capitol Limited (02T/03T), Lake Shore
> Limited (08T/09T), and Pennsylvanian (04T/07T) do
> not. I have never heard the "NS" symbols for the
> Michigan and Virginia trains that run partially
> over NS rails.

I do not listen all the time but I am sure that I have heard the Amtrak trains referred to by as "Amtrak 29" and "Amtrak 30" as they travel Northern Indiana on the Chicago Line (listening to Chicago West, Chicago East and Toledo West dispatchers).

Are you hearing Toledo area dispatchers using 02T/03T and 08T/09T on the radio?

justalurker66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> toledopatch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Amtrak trains fall into the 000 series. The
> > Crescent trains carry their own numbers, 019
> and
> > 020, but the Capitol Limited (02T/03T), Lake
> Shore
> > Limited (08T/09T), and Pennsylvanian (04T/07T)
> do
> > not. I have never heard the "NS" symbols for
> the
> > Michigan and Virginia trains that run partially
> > over NS rails.
>
> I do not listen all the time but I am sure that I
> have heard the Amtrak trains referred to by as
> "Amtrak 29" and "Amtrak 30" as they travel
> Northern Indiana on the Chicago Line (listening to
> Chicago West, Chicago East and Toledo West
> dispatchers).
>
> Are you hearing Toledo area dispatchers using
> 02T/03T and 08T/09T on the radio?


No, but those are indeed their NS symbols. Dearborn Division dispatchers don't seem to use them on the radio, but when Amtrak has run extras to or through Toledo, such as Train Day equipment moves, I've heard them run as R8T or R9T (extra section of 08T or 09T, respectively). I don't know how the Pittsburgh Division dispatchers identify the Capitol Limiteds between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. And yes, it's merely a surmise on my part that NS-style symbols exist, at least in company computers, for the Michigan services.

Pittsburgh Div typically uses the NS symbols Pittsburgh-Harrisburg, including the Capitol and the Pennsylvanian.

toledopatch Wrote:
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> And yes, it's merely a surmise on my part that NS-style symbols
> exist, at least in company computers, for the Michigan services.

I found some on a discussion forum's wiki site ... but cannot confirm or deny that they are accurate.

If the symbols are not used over the radio or in "leaked" documents they are harder to confirm.