Eastern Railroad Discussion > coal is dead

Ron Insana just quoted EHH during live inteview about future economy vs rear view mentality of trump and his supporters.

https://thinkprogress.org/fossil-fuels-are-dead-says-rail-baron-b177af077344

EHH was previously quoted spewing similar filth. Aside, thinkprorgess is an Extremist blog, akin to looking in the toilet bowl.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/17 07:17 by ChessieSystem.

elu34ch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ron Insana just quoted EHH during live inteview
> about future economy vs rear view mentality of
> trump and his supporters.
>
> https://thinkprogress.org/fossil-fuels-are-dead-sa
> ys-rail-baron-b177af077344

It sounds like EHH actually has some insight into the future. Many experts feel the same. Coal, as a fossil fuel, is too expensive to use and companies are switching over to other fuels to utilize. Too bad our current president is still looking in the rear-view mirror and out-of touch on most issues. He might actually learn something from Harrison instead of banner-waving unrealistic expectations.

When I was in grade school, they told me coal was dead, oil was dead, the gasoline engine was dead, we were heading into an ice age, and by the year 2000 the world would be out of clean water and food. I'm STILL waiting for the first one of these predictions to be right, so excuse me if I don't believe it just because certain people say so. Besides, define dead. Met coal is not dead, and export coal may not be dead either. Steam coal in the US HAS seen a major decline, but to say nobody is using it at all would simply be wrong.

Cliffs619 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> elu34ch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ron Insana just quoted EHH during live inteview
> > about future economy vs rear view mentality of
> > trump and his supporters.
> >
> >
> https://thinkprogress.org/fossil-fuels-are-dead-sa
>
> > ys-rail-baron-b177af077344
>
> It sounds like EHH actually has some insight into
> the future. Many experts feel the same. Coal, as
> a fossil fuel, is too expensive to use and
> companies are switching over to other fuels to
> utilize. Too bad our current president is still
> looking in the rear-view mirror and out-of touch
> on most issues. He might actually learn something
> from Harrison instead of banner-waving unrealistic
> expectations.

I don't know if coal will be back but never is a long time.  Energy has been in turmoil for my entire life.  Coal was on it's way out in the 1960's and came back strong in the 1970's.  Natural gas is plentiful today.  Tomorrow, who knows?  The one thing coal does have going for it is that is can be stored/stockpiled easily.  Only oil shares that characteristic today.

The one thing I do know is that no one her knows the answer with any certainty.

junctiontower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was in grade school, they told me coal was
> dead, oil was dead, the gasoline engine was dead,
> we were heading into an ice age, and by the year
> 2000 the world would be out of clean water and
> food. I'm STILL waiting for the first one of
> these predictions to be right, so excuse me if I
> don't believe it just because certain people say
> so. Besides, define dead. Met coal is not dead,
> and export coal may not be dead either. Steam coal
> in the US HAS seen a major decline, but to say
> nobody is using it at all would simply be wrong.

I agree 100%

(I guess there was no money or control angle to Global Cooling!)

Still quite a few coal powered power plants in the US , and most large city's still run on steam and boiler heating. most large factories in the mid west still burn coal for power. plus China and north and south Korea and other western countries coal is their only fuel for power.

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/17 16:12 by darkcloud.

Cliffs619 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> elu34ch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ron Insana just quoted EHH during live inteview
> > about future economy vs rear view mentality of
> > trump and his supporters.
> >
> >
> https://thinkprogress.org/fossil-fuels-are-dead-sa
>
> > ys-rail-baron-b177af077344
>
> It sounds like EHH actually has some insight into
> the future. Many experts feel the same. Coal, as
> a fossil fuel, is too expensive to use and
> companies are switching over to other fuels to
> utilize. Too bad our current president is still
> looking in the rear-view mirror and out-of touch
> on most issues. He might actually learn something
> from Harrison instead of banner-waving unrealistic
> expectations.

"looking in the rear-view mirror and out-of touch" in the mind of your ilk. to those of us who voted for him we are pleased with a LOT of things he has done.........

66

hey, i am pleased with how our president views coal and this country's energy in general. coal and its future are RELATED to trains......

66

As the interview with Hunter states, Coal is not dead today or tomorrow but, in the long term it is on it's way out in the U.S. as a primary energy creation source. As natural gas continues to be cheaper to use and easier to build power plants for creation of power from, coal will continue to decline. Solar, wind and other renewable sources are taking a bigger cut of the power production in this country every year. These forces will continue to put major downward pressure on coal use. It isn't just that natural gas is cheaper to purchase but also plants for producing electricity from natural gas are cheaper to build and total time to build natural gas plants is much shorter than coal. Another reason for decline of coal use is companies simply don't wish to take the social and political hits that operating such a dirty energy source now bring on them. At this point it simply doesn't make a lot of sense for a railroad to invest large amounts of capital in coal haulage.

wind power is on the way out, high cost of maintenance and repair for little production

elu34ch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ron Insana just quoted EHH during live inteview
> about future economy vs rear view mentality of
> trump and his supporters.
>
> https://thinkprogress.org/fossil-fuels-are-dead-sa
> ys-rail-baron-b177af077344

EHH's comments, if you read his whole statement, were that the long term overall fully encompassing future of coal is not good, especially in regards to domestic steam coal. Met coal and export steam coal do have a better outlook. CSX has what, over 800 locomotives stored in good order. CSX has the infrastructure, including equipment in place to handle much higher levels of all types of coal traffic that are currently being seen. They don't need to buy anything to support that market segment at this time or in the near future. You'll notice that the past few orders of GE's from CSX no longer ride on radial trucks, which were built and bought for use in the winding coal fields.

And though I didn't vote for President Trump, the political commentary about the President and his supporters is unwarranted and unnecessary on this forum.

Russ

Not to get completely off target any further here, but, speaking of the 800 locomotives that CSX has in storage, are the SD40-2's that they got from NS in exchange for the SD80MAC's part of that group?

In railroad parlance, steam coal is a mature product. Still generating revenue, but not something you care to invest a lot of money in.

(Nothing wrong with that if your current price gets the job done.)

Posted from Android

EHH is dead. The high cost of oxygen has caused production to be immediately ceased.

We must look to the future. A future without EHH. There are millions of alternatives to EHH. They are hundreds of times better and have far less negative impact.

Precision Railroading....precision breathing....

What's next?

Steve Zahn
Glenview, IL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/17 14:02 by run8diesel.

Answer to what's next.

Cloning EHH so we can have ones like him forever (joke).

I am 71 and when I was in high school they told us that by now Illinois would not be raising crops because of cooling that would change the climate enough to make cropping impossible. They were way wrong. I moved to my current house in 1977 and we could not get natural gas because we were told the supply was running out and no new supplies could be found anywhere. They were wrong again. We have natural gas and have plenty.

Bruce Stikkers
St. Joseph, IL

I've said this before in other posts. Working for Conrail in jobs that crossed all commodity areas, and even making maps of where major industries were and their commodity, and having data, which I mistakenly gave to the Conrail Historical Society, I can assure you that stem coal fired power plants on Conrail and it's connections in New England. the East, and Mid-Atlantic, are is mostly dead in these areas. These are facts, something the Right does not like. It started way before Obama. Almost all were small, old plants, albatrosses for their owners. Conrail hauled as much coal to these places as we could until they closed. A few steel plants were involved too. The culprit was not politics, environmentalists, but age, redundancy, and cheap natural gas in recent years which has been said many times but some do not seem to understand. some of these power plants have turned into scrap steel.

In the Mid-Atlantic some moves still survive, including a regular barge move of coal to a power plant in Trenton, NJ only on the river. Steam coal will continue to more modern efficient plants below the Mason-Dixon line. But some plants in Florida are old. Export coal will continue to move to Balto, and Hampton Roads. But the vagaries of the world coal market are virtually beyond the ability of a US's railroad's market department to predict. It involves world demand, supply, labor, and yes, unfortunately politics including the position of the US dollar among other currencies. Trains mag a few issues back saw a decent future for the Illinois coal basin. Powder River coal is down but will still move, even to some CSX and NS destinations that have large modern plants. Little coal moves west from Powder River unless it is export. Gas and hydro supply most.

So, as much as I dislike him, EHH said the proper things. With surplus engines, coal cars, and extra capacity on mostly coal routes, there is no need to invest. That is simple logic. If there is a rebound (and I hope so) assets can me quickly activated.

I'm not sure where the notion of "investing " in coal came from. I don't know anybody that is advocating spending "new" money on coal shipping capacity. I think what most sane people are advocating, and I believe what Hunter himself alluded to, was not to permanently destroy CSX's ability to handle the coal shipments that do exist and can exist in the future.