Eastern Railroad Discussion > Is CSX Starting To Not Call MP's & CP's Anymore?

This evening up in Mentor I saw 7 CSX trains. Well out of the 7, only 4 of the 7 called the Mileposts & Control Points. Now I thought my scanner was acting weird but 2 other people that were there also, didn't hear them either call the MP and CP's, but the other 4 trains you could hear call. Over this whole year so far, as the year is progressed, I've been noticing a lot of CSX trains don't call MP or CP's anymore. Why are they starting to do this more often?



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/17 20:24 by cornerfieldhobby.

Pointless noise on the radio anyway....only people to miss it will probably be railfans.

Posted from iPhone

They are still calling them on S&NA north.

It's not pointless...Tell that to trains waiting in the hole, maintenance of way folks, trainmasters, yardmasters and the like...crews calling signals is still a thing.

Crews over here are religious with it, it's saved lives in the past. Crews vary, but last I saw it's still an operating rule on CSX and NS.

CG Tower



jointauthority Wrote:
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> Pointless noise on the radio anyway....only people
> to miss it will probably be railfans.
>
> Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/17 04:11 by CGTower.

Once PTC is fully active wonder if signal calling will no longer be required?

cornerfieldhobby Wrote:
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> This evening up in Mentor I saw 7 CSX trains. Well
> out of the 7, only 4 of the 7 called the Mileposts
> & Control Points. Now I thought my scanner was
> acting weird but 2 other people that were there
> also, didn't hear them either call the MP and
> CP's, but the other 4 trains you could hear call.
> Over this whole year so far, as the year is
> progressed, I've been noticing a lot of CSX trains
> don't call MP or CP's anymore. Why are they
> starting to do this more often?


I've experienced troubles with CSX signal calling at Berea.

Joe Tarantine

You'll find it's a local matter...the rules that are best obeyed are the ones most often enforced.

I remember when Chessie started requiring signals to be called after a head-on collision around 1980, so the hind end knew the head end was reacting correctly to the signal. Once the caboose went away, I kinda wondered how important was it - the conductor and engineer are sitting in the same cab so can see the same signal. I know Amtrak trains the conductor acknowledges the head end by repeating the indication.

It's a great tool for railfans, but other than a MOW crew or the train sitting in the siding wondering where their meet is, I do wonder the value of it.

It shows that the engineer is upright and in line !!!!!

Posted from Android

Pointless!!!
A head on collision on the Pensacola Division of CSXT which was Manual Block Territory, was prevent when one train heard another announce they were entering a clear block they had no authority in. Both trains got stopped okay.
Also in signal territory when following another train, let me know here he was so I could pace myself to run on approach signals rather that on restricted proceeds. When laying back off crossings helped judge when to pull into clear.


Does not take but a couple of seconds on the radio to make the announcement.

Steve Panzik
Retired CSXT Engineer (Pensacola Div)
Chiloquin, OR



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/17 13:36 by ln844south.

I guess you guys out east like hearing yourselves talk...

Posted from iPhone

ln844south Wrote:
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> Pointless!!!
> A head on collision on the Pensacola Division of
> CSXT which was Manual Block Territory, was prevent
> when one train heard another announce they were
> entering a clear block they had no authority in.
> Both trains got stopped okay.
> Also in signal territory when following another
> train, let me know here he was so I could pace
> myself to run on approach signals rather that on
> restricted proceeds. When laying back off
> crossings helped judge when to pull into clear.
>
>
> Does not take but a couple of seconds on the radio
> to make the announcement.
>

Having had to listen to the constant noise on a radio channel that did not include calling out every location that every train is approaching or passing, I consider calling out all of this stuff just more noise. Until not may years ago, FCC and FRA prohibited a general transmission without a specific recipient, who had to be addressed in the transmission.

How did we ever work safely without radio? There are probably very few on here who did, so I should probably say they, not we. Railroading worked out fine before radio.

TAW

TAW Wrote:
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> FCC prohibited a general transmission without a
> specific recipient, who had to be addressed in the
> transmission.

Actually they still do with just a handful of exceptions. Field enforcement is practically non-existent unless someone is interfering with a licensed service, or it's some kind of public broadcast concern.

(I removed FRA as FCC regulations would supersede in this case. Railroads still get their specific radio licenses from the FCC, not the FRA)

I have mixed feelings about calling signals, sure its prevented a few accidents. But its also indirectly caused a few accidents by people making assumptions based off of what they are hearing ahead. Radio is a interesting thing, you might hear the guy 10 miles away but not hear the guy that's just a mile away.

I still do it, but only because it's what the carrier pays me to do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/17 14:30 by Foamductor.

In the not too distant past, perhaps 1-2 years ago, I read or saw somewhere online about the engineers on every train in Japan not only call out the signal (I don't recall if it was on-air or not) and point to it with their hand.

I believe that for safety, we should be doing the same in the USA. How many of us have driven their car on a long trip and the last few hours of which we can barely remember. 40+ years ago, I drove from Chicago to Dayton OH alone and couldn't remember anything of the preceding 3-4 hours when I got home. Riding/driving/RR engineer in silence allows one to mentally drift off, even to sleep. While no 'black box' audio recorder exists in locomotive cabs as airliners have them, I wonder how many of the 'sleep apnea' and 'situational awareness' related RR accidents may have been avoided had the hogger had called out the signals as they passed them...

Signal calling is a good thing, especially when trains,are following each other.

However, quite often the radio, antennas, wiring and handsets are not maintained to the level they were just last year. Operating ratio, you know.

So the crew might not even realize that they arent transmitting very far

Posted from Android

Wow, didn't know this was getting this many response. Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I went out to see the 765 today.

Yea, for me, I don't count it pointless at all. Actually a worry in way because if they don't call anything through the radio, how does another train behind or in front know unless talking to dispatch?

As a former CSX conductor, only non railroaders would see no benefit. It truely puts the "railroad" around you to life. Locals, passenger trains, road freights, yard jobs, ect, all become part of your surroundings...

Posted from iPhone

BRAtkinson Wrote:
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> In the not too distant past, perhaps 1-2 years
> ago, I read or saw somewhere online about the
> engineers on every train in Japan not only call
> out the signal

but not on a radio


> (I don't recall if it was on-air or
> not) and point to it with their hand.
>
> I believe that for safety, we should be doing the
> same in the USA. How many of us have driven their
> car on a long trip and the last few hours of which
> we can barely remember. 40+ years ago, I drove
> from Chicago to Dayton OH alone and couldn't
> remember anything of the preceding 3-4 hours when
> I got home. Riding/driving/RR engineer in silence
> allows one to mentally drift off, even to sleep.
> While no 'black box' audio recorder exists in
> locomotive cabs as airliners have them, I wonder
> how many of the 'sleep apnea' and 'situational
> awareness' related RR accidents may have been
> avoided had the hogger had called out the signals
> as they passed them...

Many years ago I ran a stop sign without realizing it. It was a place that I had been every day for years. I don't know what I was thinking or why, but I looked for the stop sign because I should have seen it by now. Right, I should have. I had already gone by it.

After a few times of wondering if that light really was green, I started calling signals to myself. Funny thing, after starting that, I have never wondered if that signal was really green, etc. There's something about audible notice that sticks, even if talking to yourself.

TAW

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> How did we ever work safely without radio? There
> are probably very few on here who did, so I should
> probably say they, not we. Railroading worked out
> fine before radio.
>
> TAW

With all respect, as you know, there were so many more sets of eyes out there in the past. Not only larger crews, but block operators every 10-15 miles or less, who were required to walk downstairs and watch for defects when able. There were also many more MofW people, agents, etc, and they all had a duty to watch out for hotboxes and dragging equipment whenever a train rolled by.

Today we don't get printed lineups. We might not know a meet is coming until we see the headlight or signal aspect. An Approach Medium aspect now can mean you are following a train, rather than diverging. And the crew districts are as long as practical, so you meet odd trains from other divisions that you aren't familiar with.

Railroad employment is 75% smaller these days, mostly because of gains in communication productivity, which eliminated clerks, agents and operators, for better and worse, and now more DS desks are picking up territory. These days, you might run your train for hours without seeing another railroader or even speaking to the DS.

Therefore, calling signals is generally helpful. There are limits based on common sense, of course, like when other crews are talking or switching, or when Defect Detectors are transmitting.

I can accept having to call approach signals but not every single single you pass. That’s ridiculous, crews and management should focus on actual railroading and not playing dispatcher in their heads. The signal tells you what you need to know....just because the train ahead of you is passing the next signal doesn’t mean your signal won’t be red coming up.

Posted from iPhone