Eastern Railroad Discussion > Is CSX This Good????

Although there are differences in Methodology on how each of the Class 1's arrive at the figures they provide each week to the STB the below data covers an 8 week period for weekending 8/17 to 10/5. Analysts and most data sites will always point out the fact that there is a certain amount of risk when comparing the numbers between competing roads. And prefer to look at how each road is trending over a given period. 

Just hard to believe that CSX has crews in the right place at the right time all the time. Have ZERO NADDA locomotive issues. And no other issues that would cause a train to be delayed???
Sorry, but until an individual with the all the skill sets to be able to decipher all the nuances in the Methodology used by CSX I ain't buying it!!!

Phil Maton
Villa Rica, GA

---

You can make numbers say anything...

CG Tower

One of the ways they make their numbers look good is to re-symbol trains to make it look like there were no delays.  For example, Q025 (high-priority intermodal) goes on the law before it reaches the terminal, CSX will make up a different symbol for the relief crew to bring it in, thus making it look like the original train was on time.  They do lots of things like this to appease their hedge fund masters.

RFandPFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of the ways they make their numbers look good
> is to re-symbol trains to make it look like there
> were no delays.  For example, Q025 (high-priority
> intermodal) goes on the law before it reaches the
> terminal, CSX will make up a different symbol for
> the relief crew to bring it in, thus making it
> look like the original train was on time.  They
> do lots of things like this to appease their hedge
> fund masters.

Yeah, I can see that happening. Change the train symbol.
One would think the other roads would do the same. So why don't they???
 

Phil Maton
Villa Rica, GA

CGTower Wrote:
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> You can make numbers say anything...
>
> CG Tower

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics

NSSpike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RFandPFan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One of the ways they make their numbers look
> good
> > is to re-symbol trains to make it look like
> there
> > were no delays.  For example, Q025
> (high-priority
> > intermodal) goes on the law before it reaches
> the
> > terminal, CSX will make up a different symbol
> for
> > the relief crew to bring it in, thus making it
> > look like the original train was on time. 
> They
> > do lots of things like this to appease their
> hedge
> > fund masters.
>
> Yeah, I can see that happening. Change the train
> symbol.
> One would think the other roads would do the same.
> So why don't they???
>  

NS does it all the time.  They call a crew as an (whatever division)99 and the crew goes and gets the outl lawed train. 

NKPSOUTHERN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NSSpike Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > RFandPFan Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > One of the ways they make their numbers look
> > good
> > > is to re-symbol trains to make it look like
> > there
> > > were no delays.  For example, Q025
> > (high-priority
> > > intermodal) goes on the law before it reaches
> > the
> > > terminal, CSX will make up a different symbol
> > for
> > > the relief crew to bring it in, thus making
> it
> > > look like the original train was on time. 
> > They
> > > do lots of things like this to appease their
> > hedge
> > > fund masters.
> >
> > Yeah, I can see that happening. Change the
> train
> > symbol.
> > One would think the other roads would do the
> same.
> > So why don't they???
> >  
>
> NS does it all the time.  They call a crew as an
> (whatever division)99 and the crew goes and gets
> the outl lawed train. 


Conrail's used to do it.

Posted from Android

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA

https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/performance-measures/?mobileFormat=true

The car numbers aren't even close to what they claim on their own page. The dwell isn't close. The velocity isn't close. etc.
They claim a total of 122,280 on their own reports. This is down from near what your graph shows. That 180-190k cars was normal 2 years ago. CSX traffic is down big time. Most hump yards that are left are showing 1/2 the cars in the yard that they once did. Traffic is down so much, many aren't humping what they once did which cuts costs. 

If you walked into Kroger and the shelves were empty, would you think they were doing a good job?  TAW had it right when he called it precision stock manipulation. They are really good at it. It's easy to serve the customers out there as they've cut them down. It's easy to move trains when you only need one now. It's easy to make all of these numbers look great. As one of my friends said, "this doesn't pass the eyeball test" when looking at the railroad and then their numbers.

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/18 07:53 by joeygooganelli.

As your friendly, local CPA would ask:

Q: What is 2 plus 2?

A: Whatever you want it to be.

RFandPFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of the ways they make their numbers look good
> is to re-symbol trains to make it look like there
> were no delays. 
It doesn't work like that.

>For example, Q025 (high-priority
> intermodal) goes on the law before it reaches the
> terminal, CSX will make up a different symbol for
> the relief crew to bring it in, thus making it
> look like the original train was on time.  

I have never seen an intermodal get a new symbol.  I have never seen anyone ask for a new symbol on an intermodal train.

In all honesty, the numbers posted sound about right, at least in my little corner of the kingdom.

You may have never seen it, but it happens frequently in the Jacksonville area. Especially when Q025 is worked by the long pool (which it is going back to) from Manchester to Jax. The train will die on the law usually south of Folkston and the recrew will be a “O” symbol (local train) to bring it into the Jax Ramp.

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RFandPFan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One of the ways they make their numbers look
> good
> > is to re-symbol trains to make it look like
> there
> > were no delays. 
> It doesn't work like that.
>
> >For example, Q025 (high-priority
> > intermodal) goes on the law before it reaches
> the
> > terminal, CSX will make up a different symbol
> for
> > the relief crew to bring it in, thus making it
> > look like the original train was on time.  
>
> I have never seen an intermodal get a new symbol.
>  I have never seen anyone ask for a new symbol on
> an intermodal train.
>
> In all honesty, the numbers posted sound about
> right, at least in my little corner of the
> kingdom.

Posted from iPhone

An hour ago, I shot NS 238 coming into North Charleston. The yardmaster called it both "238" and "P2V" on the radio. I'm not sure if the symbol in the computer was changed for the recrew. On many occasions I've heard the local symbol used, but I've heard the DS use the proper symbol (not the re-crew) when clearing up TA's.

RFandPFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You may have never seen it, but it happens
> frequently in the Jacksonville area. Especially
> when Q025 is worked by the long pool (which it is
> going back to) from Manchester to Jax. The train
> will die on the law usually south of Folkston and
> the recrew will be a “O” symbol (local train)
> to bring it into the Jax Ramp.
>
> Typhoon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > RFandPFan Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > One of the ways they make their numbers look
> > good
> > > is to re-symbol trains to make it look like
> > there
> > > were no delays. 
> > It doesn't work like that.
> >
> > >For example, Q025 (high-priority
> > > intermodal) goes on the law before it reaches
> > the
> > > terminal, CSX will make up a different symbol
> > for
> > > the relief crew to bring it in, thus making
> it
> > > look like the original train was on time.  
> >
> > I have never seen an intermodal get a new
> symbol.
> >  I have never seen anyone ask for a new symbol
> on
> > an intermodal train.
> >
> > In all honesty, the numbers posted sound about
> > right, at least in my little corner of the
> > kingdom.
>
> Posted from iPhone

RFandPFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You may have never seen it, but it happens
> frequently in the Jacksonville area. Especially
> when Q025 is worked by the long pool (which it is
> going back to) from Manchester to Jax. The train
> will die on the law usually south of Folkston and
> the recrew will be a “O” symbol (local train)
> to bring it into the Jax Ramp.

That is not "resymboling" the train, that is using a local crew to drag in the train.  The Q025's arrival time will not be altered, and will show arrived when the local crew drags it into the ramp in Jax.  Using the local crew will "hide" a recrew however it would not have effected anything shown in the OP's chart.

EHH introduced his own system of accounting in association with PSR wherever he went.  At this point CN is back in most cases to using industry standard reporting methodology, but CP and CSX use Hunter's numbers.  As a result the AAR does not include CP and CSX in their reporting.  With that said, "industry standard" is a somewhat loose term and it is dangerous to compare one railroad against another on that basis.  What probably is reliable, however, -- and this applies to CP and CSX as well -- is to plot trends on a single railroad using month-to-month reporting figures.  On that basis CSX seems to be doing OK.

Gordon  

I'm not going to argue with you about this.  A good friend is a CSX engineer and has been called for these relief crews.  The "O" symbol he was given was a non-existent local, not one that was previously on duty.  For example, his last one was O455 which is not a regular CSX train.  There was already a Q455 (Waycorss-Jax turn) on duty that was already running with a different crew.  Since he has over 20 years on the railroad, I would imagine he knows what he's talking about.

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RFandPFan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You may have never seen it, but it happens
> > frequently in the Jacksonville area. Especially
> > when Q025 is worked by the long pool (which it
> is
> > going back to) from Manchester to Jax. The
> train
> > will die on the law usually south of Folkston
> and
> > the recrew will be a “O” symbol (local
> train)
> > to bring it into the Jax Ramp.
>
> That is not "resymboling" the train, that is using
> a local crew to drag in the train.  The Q025's
> arrival time will not be altered, and will show
> arrived when the local crew drags it into the ramp
> in Jax.  Using the local crew will "hide" a
> recrew however it would not have effected anything
> shown in the OP's chart.

Windows Precision Railroading.

RFandPFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not going to argue with you about this.  A
> good friend is a CSX engineer and has been called
> for these relief crews.  The "O" symbol he was
> given was a non-existent local, not one that was
> previously on duty.  For example, his last one
> was O455 which is not a regular CSX train.  There
> was already a Q455 (Waycorss-Jax turn) on duty
> that was already running with a different crew. 
> Since he has over 20 years on the railroad, I
> would imagine he knows what he is talking about.


If he is saying what you are saying, he doesn’t. As someone who works in the Jax ops center, and the Chicago one before centralization, I do.  Again even if he was given an "O symbol, it doesn't change what time Q025 would arrive.  It just hides the recrew.  It doesn't change an arrival time or the velocity of the train.  But what do I know, I only work there and you don't........

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/18 16:16 by Typhoon.

Have a nice day!

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RFandPFan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm not going to argue with you about this.  A
> > good friend is a CSX engineer and has been
> called
> > for these relief crews.  The "O" symbol he was
> > given was a non-existent local, not one that
> was
> > previously on duty.  For example, his last one
> > was O455 which is not a regular CSX train. 
> There
> > was already a Q455 (Waycorss-Jax turn) on duty
> > that was already running with a different
> crew. 
> > Since he has over 20 years on the railroad, I
> > would imagine he knows what he is talking
> about.
>
>
> If he is saying what you are saying, he doesn’t.
> As someone who works in the Jax ops center, and
> the Chicago one before centralization, I do.
>  Again even if he was given an "O symbol, it
> doesn't change what time Q025 would arrive.  It
> just hides the recrew.  It doesn't change an
> arrival time or the velocity of the train.  But
> what do I know, I only work there and you
> don't........
>
> Posted from iPhone

RFandPFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have a nice day!

You as well, just educate yourself before spewing bs.....

Typhoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RFandPFan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Have a nice day!
>
> You as well, just educate yourself before spewing
> bs.....

LOL! And you keep on trolling!

Posted from iPhone