Eastern Railroad Discussion > President Bush should return to Texas by train

Thousands would cheer him trackside and from overpasses.  It would bring America together again...... if only for a fleeting moment.  He loved trains.

I was hoping UP #4141 and #1943 would come east again and transport him from DC to Texas...  But alas, not so.
After all, Bush won every state along that route in 1988, and won all but GA (where he lost by only 13,000 votes while Perot had over 100,000 votes) and LA in 1992.

cinder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thousands would cheer him trackside and from
> overpasses.  It would bring America together
> again...... if only for a fleeting moment.  He
> loved trains.

I agree it would be great to do this and it might help the country come together even though I am sure you would have the people along the way protesting.   The security concern would be a nightmare.   This is not the same world or times as before.   The other question is "he loved trains"  do you know that for fact, was he a railfan?  

Gary
 

In addition such a train would have extended the funeral arrangements by many days. It would be costly, and it's something that the Secret Service and the MDW haven't done since Dwight Eisenhower. To some degree it would be disruptive to RR operations all along the route. Furthermore, unless you wanted the train to take four days from DC to Texas, it would necessarily pass through many cities in the middle of the night. 

A sentimental idea that doesn't hold up under scrutiny. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/18 08:32 by ctillnc.

mully Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cinder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thousands would cheer him trackside and from
> > overpasses.  It would bring America together
> > again...... if only for a fleeting moment.  He
> > loved trains.
>
> I agree it would be great to do this and it might
> help the country come together even though I am
> sure you would have the people along the way
> protesting.   The security concern would be a
> nightmare.   This is not the same world or times
> as before.   The other question is "he loved
> trains"  do you know that for fact, was he a
> railfan?  
>
> Gary
>  

The 1968 RFK funeral train for 220 miles was a disaster in human safety from the trespasser toll and time-keeping.

mully Wrote:
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> The other question is "he loved trains"  do you know that for fact, was he a railfan?  

Yes. And he got "throttle time" at the engineer's desk of 4141 back in 2005. He ran the engine for two miles.

According to various news media, he pre-defined his funeral
arrangement wishes, and they didn't include rail.  Also the fact
that he ran the 4141 for two miles certainly doesn't define
his interests.

Recent days have reminded us that he was a great human being !

justalurker66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mully Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The other question is "he loved trains"  do you
> know that for fact, was he a railfan?  
>
> Yes. And he got "throttle time" at the engineer's
> desk of 4141 back in 2005. He ran the engine for
> two miles.

Hate to split hairs but that does not mean he loved trains, he was a politician, he made have had an interest in how it works.  Does not mean he was a railfan or loved trains.  I dont know if he was or not I am just curious if someone knew for fact.   As an example it has been reported and covered many times that Rod Stewart was a modeler.

Gary
 

Lincoln's funeral train departed DC on April 21st and traveled a circuitous 1700 miles to his burial site in Springfield,Illinois where he was laid to rest on May 4th in 1865. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/18 10:49 by ubee1964.

See https://history.army.mil/books/Last_Salute/ch29.htm for details of the train that took the remains of President Eisenhower to Kansas. There was a formal loading procedure at DC Union Station. Routing was C&O-B&O-N&W-UP. There was an attempt to keep the precise route undisclosed, in order to prevent a repeat of the RFK situation. This failed (and in the modern Internet era, of course it would fail again.) Trip took 30 hours. 

FDR's remains were carried by train from Warm Springs, Ga. to DC for the funeral and from there on to New York for burial.

ctillnc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would be
> costly, and it's something that the Secret Service
> and the MDW haven't done since Dwight Eisenhower.
> To some degree it would be disruptive to RR
> operations all along the route.

Actually it was January 17, 2009 the last time a train of such "importance" was done in the US. While he was not yet sworn in as president (3 days later) security was nonetheless just as tight and involved a major disruption to the railroad. All switches had to be spiked, etc and etc and so forth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/18 11:47 by jst3751.

I was trying to remember the other day which politician it was and I think it was Bush, Sr.  

I remember a "staged media event" at St. Louis Union Station where a short UP train that had an open platform business car was shoved backwards toward the station for about three car lengths right to where the media was and then he gave a speech to them and the crowd from the rear platform.  

That is today's modified "whistlestop campaign train" in the jet age.  As we see here, for security reasons, funeral trains should run for about 70 miles or so.  Just enough to get the preferred amount of media coverage.  

I am not mourning this man's passing.  Now that he's gone maybe, just maybe, some more of the redacted files can be made public regarding the JFK assassination.  This man has furnished all sorts of "cannon fodder" for JFK conspiracy theorists.  All one has to do is GOOGLE his name as key words along with "JFK assassination" and all sorts of interesting stuff comes up.  

Perhaps someone here can view this video and explain why he cracked a smile at the most inappropriate time at Gerald Ford's funeral.

https://youtu.be/fZb_UAoHQBU



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/18 15:50 by CA_Sou_MA_Agent.

The Washington Post had a short piece the other day about Mr Bush's role as CIA director.  The piece asserted 41 believed that spies should keep their eyes open and their mouths shut. That some folks like Noriega needed a bullet between the eyes, and a fast exit.  That was the way the CIA operated in the "good old days" in Iran, Guatemala, Dominican Republlic, Chile, Brazil, Italy, etc.

(That wasn't an unusual position to take.  The US invasion of Russia in 1919 to topple the Bolsheviks, and the occupation of much of the Carribbean in the 1920s came from a similar root)

mully Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
  As an example it has been reported
> and covered many times that Rod Stewart was a
> modeler.
>
> Gary

That is an impressive layout....   

I have the MR somewhere.

Fact - Rod Stewart is a Model Railroader - He builds all his buildings for his layout that is not finished.
original
 

Here is a direct "lift" from the AARRPCO web-site about a special rail move for President George H. W. Bush's "funeral train".The Union Pacific funeral train for President George H.W. Bush will leave Union Pacific's Westfield Auto Facility (not open to the public) December 6th at 1 p.m. and should arrive at College Station across from Kyle Field at 3:25 p.m.  Progressive Railroading said the funeral train will include UP locomotive #4141 "George Bush," which was unveiled October 18, 2005, during a ceremony near the Bush presidential library and museum on the Texas A&M University campus. 
 

mully Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The other question is "he loved
> trains"  do you know that for fact, was he a
> railfan?  
>
> Gary

Gary,
Did you see this thread on the western board? 
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,4680898
It looks like George Sr. and son George Jr. both at one point liked model trains...

I have to wonder if that photoghapher lived long enough to realize his local newspaper photo of a dad and his son playing with an electric train was of two future Presidents.

I think there also exists an interview, perhaps with Jeb, where he mentioned his father taking them down to the station to watch trains...



 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/18 21:56 by CSX602.

mully Wrote:
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> Hate to split hairs ...

Then don't split hairs.  Perhaps you expect some story that would qualify him as a foamer (not just a rail fan)? A person is not required to stand in the cold for several hours overnight to see a special train pass in 40 seconds to "qualify" as a railfan. A person is not required to spend half of their lives discussing trains and arguing beyond their knowledge to "qualify" as a railfan. A person is not required to know the geneology of every engine and rail car to "qualify" as a railfan, nor know the rules of every railroad that has ever existed. Being a rail fan starts with "I like trains". Split hairs and draw a line between an enthusiast and a fanatical person.

People at his level are more professional in their fandom. He could have easily spent his time in a parlor car discussing financials. He sat in the engineer's chair and ran the engine. Perhaps that does not "qualify" as a railfan in your estimation. It qualifies as mine.  Perhaps playing model trains with your son does not "qualify" as being a railfan. Perhaps hosting an exibit at your museum on the importantance of rail does not "qualify" as being a railfan. At some point one needs to stop throwing away any evidence of liking trains and accept the reality. If HW wasn't a railfan then no one on this site is a railfan.

justalurker66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mully Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hate to split hairs ...
>
> Then don't split hairs.  Perhaps you expect some
> story that would qualify him as a foamer (not just
> a rail fan)? A person is not required to stand in
> the cold for several hours overnight to see a
> special train pass in 40 seconds to "qualify" as a
> railfan. A person is not required to spend half of
> their lives discussing trains and arguing beyond
> their knowledge to "qualify" as a railfan. A
> person is not required to know the geneology of
> every engine and rail car to "qualify" as a
> railfan, nor know the rules of every railroad that
> has ever existed. Being a rail fan starts with "I
> like trains". Split hairs and draw a line between
> an enthusiast and a fanatical person.
>
> People at his level are more professional in their
> fandom. He could have easily spent his time in a
> parlor car discussing financials. He sat in the
> engineer's chair and ran the engine. Perhaps that
> does not "qualify" as a railfan in your
> estimation. It qualifies as mine.  Perhaps
> playing model trains with your son does not
> "qualify" as being a railfan. Perhaps hosting an
> exibit at your museum on the importantance of rail
> does not "qualify" as being a railfan. At some
> point one needs to stop throwing away any evidence
> of liking trains and accept the reality. If HW
> wasn't a railfan then no one on this site is a
> railfan.

The quote was he loved trains just curious what that was based on. Railfan can be different levels just like the term of foamer can be considered rude


Gary

Posted from iPhone

My Dad who is 90, like trains but is not what we would consider a railfan.

He took me in 1976 to see 610 pull the freedom train.
He came to my house in Argyle Tx to see 3985
He went trackside in ROANOKE Tx to see 844.
He has been to a couple of my 1.5” scale live steam meets to ride behind my steam engine.
He too would like to operate a real engine, but is not President so will never get the chance.

Dad likes trains, as did George HWBush,  but I would not call him a railfan.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/18 05:46 by WrongWayMurphy.